Dead in the water again....

[chowder2016 110]

Now the starter seems to have gone out.  Super embarrassing being at ski beach on the delta. Hundreds of boats and Im the one boat out there getting towed in by BoatUs. Another weekend ruined.  I left Malibu to avoid this crap....maybe I should just get a pontoon boat. 

[carguy79ta 67]

hang in there Chowder.  you got the first xr7 257 right?  shouldn't be this way.  hammer the dealer.  keep the faith.  your boat puts out 2x the wave of all else out  there and your dealer and Centurion will make it right.

[Darkside 248]

Chowder,  i lost my starter a week ago.  The problem was not tree starter, but the exhaust flapper inside tge silent stinger.  The flapper got stuck open, allowing water to back up and hydro lock the engine.  The starter fried trying to crank the engine.  So flapper AND starter replaced.   

So have them check your flapper!

[wheels 151]

15 minutes ago, Darkside said:

Chowder,  i lost my starter a week ago.  The problem was not tree starter, but the exhaust flapper inside tge silent stinger.  The flapper got stuck open, allowing water to back up and hydro lock the engine.  The starter fried trying to crank the engine.  So flapper AND starter replaced.   

So have them check your flapper!

So is there a fix for this? Is there a chance of this happening again?

[carguy79ta 67]

Darkside..if your motor was hydrolocked..did it injest water?

[DeltaFirstMate 16]

Dark side!! I was with Chowder today. That makes a lot of sense since the belts wouldn't turn to move the engine at all. It was like the engine was locked. 

Whats the fix?

[chowder2016 110]

Dropped it off at the dealer today. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. In the meantime Memorial Day is ruined.  

[wheels 151]

Thanks chowder. Sorry to hear on your luck. 

[Darkside 248]

Solution is bolt replacement in the flapper, new starter, and oil change.  Fairly simple fix, that should prevent reoccuring.   The flapper is inside silent stinger.  

When this happened we were fully weighted so tush end was DEEP.  Platform was calf deep.  We stopped for lunch and it would not restart, alternator smoked, literally smoked! 

Same thing we had to be towed in.  Totally screwed the weekend.  However all better and got boat back last Friday.   

Edited May 29, 2017 by Darkside

[chowder2016 110]

1 hour ago, Darkside said:

Solution is bolt replacement in the flapper, new starter, and oil change.  Fairly simple fix, that should prevent reoccuring.   The flapper is inside silent stinger.  

When this happened we were fully weighted so tush end was DEEP.  Platform was calf deep.  We stopped for lunch and it would not restart, alternator smoked, literally smoked! 

Same thing we had to be towed in.  Totally screwed the weekend.  However all better and got boat back last Friday.   

That makes sense. We filled up the PNP and the transom bag with the new bigger ones from the factory + 1500 lbs of lead.  Standing on the swim deck it was probably a good 20 inches under water. And then she wouldn't  start. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by chowder2016
Typo

[Darkside 248]

6 hours ago, chowder2016 said:

That makes sense. We filled up the PNP and the transom bag with the new bigger ones from the factory + 1500 lbs of lead.  Standing on the swim deck it was probably a good 20 inches under water. And then she wouldn't  start. 

I am close to the same, 1000 pounds vs 1500 in lead.... give your dealer a heads up,  other wise they are likely to only swap the starter and this WILL HAPPEN AGAIN, if they don't fix the flapper!

This is kinda the poohs but it is a hazard with first gen.  Like you i left Malibu due to reliability, i expect a few issues, yours have been much worse than mine and hopefully they are close to being sorted out.

~Joe

Edited May 29, 2017 by Darkside

[Bongo Fury 640]

Just now, chowder2016 said:

That makes sense. We filled up the PNP and the transom bag with the new bigger ones from the factory + 1500 lbs of lead.  Standing on the swim deck it was probably a good 20 inches under water. And then she wouldn't  start. 

So sorry to hear about the issues you are having.  I had something knock my old Falcon V off the water on a 4th of July weekend....sucks for sure especially with a brand new boat.  Seems like most of the time issues occur in the first 20 hours then your good to go...hope it all gets sorted out for you!   Gotta admit....my eyes got wide when I saw 1500 lbs of lead.....seems crazy to me and strange that those big boats require so much extra weight and I slam my boat pretty hard.  

[eclipsesurfer 7]

Darkside How could you tell that there was water in the engine? was the oil milky?

[cripper 8]

So is there a preventive fix for this so it doesn't happen in future?? Is flap getting stuck on bolt head or something similar? 

[South Shore Marina NJ 99]

On 5/29/2017 at 2:03 AM, chowder2016 said:

That makes sense. We filled up the PNP and the transom bag with the new bigger ones from the factory + 1500 lbs of lead.  Standing on the swim deck it was probably a good 20 inches under water. And then she wouldn't  start. 

      Well.. there's your problem.  Without a doubt you're getting the water level over the level of the risers on the engine. To be honest, 20" over the swim deck is kind of insane, and on an Ri237 that's definitely over the rub rail and probably close to or over the rear storage compartment/transom seat.  An engine should never rely on an exhaust flapper to prevent hydrolocking. You need to be aware of the water level in relation to the exhaust risers when putting that much extra weight in the boat. Even a flapper that's working perfectly will let some water past and if you're weighted too much, it will eventually flood the engine.  You'll have to chill with the lead or atleast redistribute it. If not, you will have this issue again as this is a matter of too much weight in the rear of the boat.. If it really did hydrolock, and the boat was really weighted that deep, you can't really blame the boat on this one. 

[Bawshogg 77]

I had this EXACT discussion with another dealer recently about this issue. I deduced the same findings as you are describing. Our question is where exactly is said "flap' located on the boats equipped with the silent stinger? I too have never seen an exhaust "flap" that will completely seal off the flow of water. Typically they are there to keep water from being pushed back up the exhaust when you come off the throttle . Water naturally finds its own level per say. If your exhaust ports are lower than the water line and you sit there long enough, flapper or no flapper, water will eventually make its way into the cylinders with exhaust valves open.

[daz28iroc 73]

I would disagree with south shore, the manufacturer is in the wrong here.

designing a boat to have high freeboard which is in turn to have the boat have the ability to sit deeper in the water, the exhaust should be correctly routed to avoid this very situation. there is some missing forethought on their part here.

this boat is not some cheap run of the mill boat, it is sold with a single purpose of surfing.

[Darkside 248]

There is a really, really fast and simple fix that i am going to start doing.   DRAIN the Ram fill before stopping for lunch or extended float.  45 seconds to drain less than 30 to fill, no big deal.

I don't buy platform 20" under water.  Mine is calf deep, so 10-12" or so.   

Second i would put the blame on Manufacturer as in my case i run a small crew only 5 people in board when this happened.  So i was well within weight guidelines.

I personally did not take anything apart, i had dealer do ALL THE WORK, that way i am not part of the problem.  The dealer told me it was hydrolock issue.

@daz28iroc make no mistake they are decent wakeboard boat as well.  However surfing is amazing behind these. 

[257Tsunami 50]

55 minutes ago, daz28iroc said:

I would disagree with south shore, the manufacturer is in the wrong here.

designing a boat to have high freeboard which is in turn to have the boat have the ability to sit deeper in the water, the exhaust should be correctly routed to avoid this very situation. there is some missing forethought on their part here.

this boat is not some cheap run of the mill boat, it is sold with a single purpose of surfing.

The 257 now comes with over 6000lbs of ballast from the factory (taking into account the updated PnP bags). The boat is setup perfectly to handle that. You get that kind of weight and the boat still sits high above the water and doesn't dip the nose while running a ton of factory ballast. It's safe, dry, and comfortable, while still producing a GIANT wave. That's the reason for the extra freeboard. The idea wasn't so that you can add another 10,000lbs on top of the factory ballast and have a perfectly reliable machine. The whole idea behind the 257 is that you don't need to add anything to have the best surf wave out there (out of the box). Not like Malibu's and other brands where you need to add a ton of extra weight to produce an acceptable surf wave. The way Centurion designed this boat in stock form is perfect. I'm sure when they brought this product to market they were thinking there would never be any reason to have to add more weight. But as with any boat, lots of folks like to push the limits the best they can. It's understandable for sure. But the 257 comes as a hell of a package from the factory. IMO it's unreasonable to expect them to stand behind their product when it fails as a result of being modified from it's original form. No different than expecting GM, Ford, or Dodge to warranty a transmission on a truck that has been deleted and chipped to add 200HP over stock. I could maybe see an argument on a boat such as a 23 LSV where Malibu might not want to warranty something because a guy installed rear PnP bags. The stock ballast is just not sufficient for a boat that is supposed to be equipped for surfing from the factory. They should be expecting that the boat will be running extra ballast. Now take a 257 with the ballast it has from the factory (including PnP)........ different story. With that said, I haven't heard of this specific issue happening on other brands while being heavily weighted. But they come with their share of issues as well when you start weighting them down. There comes a point when you can't expect warranty on everything and anything regardless of how you modify or use the machine. Regardless, it sounds like Centurion is warranting this issue anyways. And they'll likely come out with a better fix in the coming year. That's going above and beyond in my eyes. If we start seeing this issue with factory weighted boats, now we have a different discussion for sure.

For those experiencing this issue, my biggest concern would be whether your dealer has truly eliminated all of the water out of the engine. A single oil change simply won't take care of flushing all of the water out of a hydrolocked engine. It takes multiple oil AND filter changes to do this. If it is not done properly, any leftover water will cause premature wear and pitting on your engine bearings, liners, etc. That is going to cause huge issues.

Quote

Second i would put the blame on Manufacturer as in my case i run a small crew only 5 people in board when this happened.  So i was well within weight guidelines.

EDIT: In all fairness, the manufacturer does have to take this ^^^^^^^^ into account for sure.

Edited May 30, 2017 by 257Tsunami

[NAW 2]

Bummed to hear issues like this, regardless of boat/manufacturer.

 

But, with all this weight that everyone is running (and the rear biased distribution of it in these 257's), at what point do you stop?

It seems to me that so many are focusing on having this insane wave that looks good on the internet, rather than being a better wakesurfer with the factory wake.  

If people focused on learning to be a better wakesurfer with proper technique and coaching, instead of slamming the crap out of your new boat, I doubt as many 'reliability' issues would surface.