Dead in the water again....

[South Shore Marina NJ 99]

3 hours ago, daz28iroc said:

I would disagree with south shore, the manufacturer is in the wrong here.

designing a boat to have high freeboard which is in turn to have the boat have the ability to sit deeper in the water, the exhaust should be correctly routed to avoid this very situation. there is some missing forethought on their part here.

this boat is not some cheap run of the mill boat, it is sold with a single purpose of surfing.

Well then, I'll have to challenge you to go get a tape measure and find an Ri237.  He said the water was 20" over the platform.   So measure 20" over the platform and tell me if you still think the manufacturer is in the wrong, lol.   It's way over the rub rail and practically coming in the boat.  Even if he's exaggerating or over estimating a few inches, it's still excessive.  The point of high free board is to provide a safer, drier, more secure ride while the boat is weighted.  It doesn't mean you should sink the back of the boat under water.  And as for being within weight capacity, thats true, however, the weight still needs to be distributed.  If you had ten people in the boat they likely wouldn't all be sitting on top of each other in one corner of the boat.   This needs to be taken into consideration when stacking lead in the boat.   

The exhaust flapper is still in the thru-hull in the transom.

[Darkside 248]

5 minutes ago, NAW said:

Bummed to hear issues like this, regardless of boat/manufacturer.

 

But, with all this weight that everyone is running (and the rear biased distribution of it in these 257's), at what point do you stop?

It seems to me that so many are focusing on having this insane wave that looks good on the internet, rather than being a better wakesurfer with the factory wake.  

If people focused on learning to be a better wakesurfer with proper technique and coaching, instead of slamming the crap out of your new boat, I doubt as many 'reliability' issues would surface.   

First most are not even using all available factory ballast.  So few are "slamming the crap out of them".  I personally did not even order the factory bow bag, and most of the time center tank is 25-50% MAX.  So weight is very rear biased, that is the nature of this beast.  These are very different from the product you sell, and are used to.  

Technique and coaching are great,  however having a larger more forgiving wave also helps progression.   If you are not washing out the back, you stay up longer, and spend less time circling/restarting.   It also allows tremendous amounts of push through the entire wave enabling you  to dothings that were not previously possible. 

What i experienced, and i suspect chowder as well, is a 1st gen issue.  Which i fully expected, it would be insane not to think there would be a few kinks.   

[Darkside 248]

35 minutes ago, South Shore Marina NJ said:

Well then, I'll have to challenge you to go get a tape measure and find an Ri237.  He said the water was 20" over the platform.   So measure 20" over the platform and tell me if you still think the manufacturer is in the wrong, lol.   It's way over the rub rail and practically coming in the boat.  Even if he's exaggerating or over estimating a few inches, it's still excessive.  The point of high free board is to provide a safer, drier, more secure ride while the boat is weighted.  It doesn't mean you should sink the back of the boat under water.  And as for being within weight capacity, thats true, however, the weight still needs to be distributed.  If you had ten people in the boat they likely wouldn't all be sitting on top of each other in one corner of the boat.   This needs to be taken into consideration when stacking lead in the boat.   

The exhaust flapper is still in the thru-hull in the transom.

Some true points however in my case 500 on each side, and distributed from rear corner seat back.  That would not be much different than putting me and 2 buddies in the rear bench.   So no fluffy people in rear seats?  And remember i only had 5 people on board... so yes this is a design problem.  

[chowder2016 110]

Oh man this turned into a hot topic, lol.

So the 20" maybe an exaggeration, I just took a ruler to my leg and it was probably about 13-14". (so my bad)

Our crew is normally pretty small 3-5 people at a time usually.  I guess the initial frustration for me came that before running any added weight and before the engine even had 8 hours on it I lost my boat for 3 weeks, because some dumb dumb at the factory installed the thermostats backward and forgot to bleed the coolant lines when they put in the ice breaker package.

In addition to software issues that we all described, missing drains in the cooler section, limo lights not working, underwater lights no working, water temp gauge not working, trailer lights not working....plus who know how many other issues are going to come up in the next few weeks.  So its frustrating that on the 2nd biggest purchase of my life (first being my home), I am having issues that seem to be for the most part QC factory problems.  We all know how expensive these guys are, its no secret.  If I bought a brand new Porsche and 500 miles into we had these kinds of issues nobody would stand for it.

As far as the additional weight goes I have not exceeded the sticker weight that is allowed, and I was following Sean Cummings advice where he puts 1500 additional weight in the back of his 237.  Excessive, maybe, wrong maybe not.

Darkside your suggestion is a great one and I will definitely do that from now on, I will only load up the bags right before surfing and Ill make sure to keep the engine on so the exhaust is always pushing out instead of coming back in.  Which reminds me of one more flaw with the silent stinger sleeve that keeps ripping so all the exhaust comes out the back anyway rendering the silent stinger option as a NOT SO SILENT stinger.....

Crazy part is this, I LOVE this boat, and I can't wait to get back out and run the crap out of her.  I would still recommend the boat and Centurion to anyone, but I have a feeling the 2018 257's are going to be considerably more reliable.

Just my two cents....

 

 

[257Tsunami 50]

The only real fix I can see would be to install higher exhaust risers. The engine has to sit low in the haul to maintain a proper driveline angle. The deeper these boats get, and the further we sink them, the lower the engines are going to sit below the water line. If they start mounting the engines higher, they will have to increase the angle of the driveline. This will cause a higher loss of HP through the driveline, and create more broken parts (now we'll be bitchin about that). I'm curious to see how this issue pans out on these boats. I'm sorry for the unfortunate ones who have already had to deal with this. I think anybody operating within manufacturers ratings has a right to be upset. I do also think people just assume that a boat with lots of freeboard was designed to be "slammed." in this case I am referring to "slammed" as using a large amount of ballast on top of the factory ballast (just to be clear). It's not the case. It's designed to effectively handle the factory ballast and weight ratings it has been given. A boat offering 6000 + lbs of factory ballast PLUS ample seating for 18 people needs to have some pretty substantial freeboard to remain safe and comfortable when being loaded as rated.

Chowder - I hear your frustration. I hope it all works out in the end.

Edited May 30, 2017 by 257Tsunami

[NAW 2]

Manufacturers capacity is one thing. But for a user to stuff a lot of the capacity in the rear of the boat instead of properly distributing it is asking for issues that may not have been identified in the limited engineering capabilities of a smaller manufacturer.

 

[wheels 151]

So would this be happening without the silent stinger option? Is it a ballasting issue? Silent stinger issue or combination of both?

[RhuntIII 555]

Good point wheels. This hydrolock due to a slammed boat is new to me. I would slam the pooh out of my Avy with a FAE and never had this problem. I know lots of guys that slam their boats and never heard of this problem. 

[257Tsunami 50]

58 minutes ago, RhuntIII said:

Good point wheels. This hydrolock due to a slammed boat is new to me. I would slam the pooh out of my Avy with a FAE and never had this problem. I know lots of guys that slam their boats and never heard of this problem. 

The engine in the Avy (and probably all other inboards for that matter) sits much higher (relative to the water line) than the 257. The 257 is heavier and deeper, therefore drafting more water. This means that the engine in the Ri's will sit much deeper (relative) to the water line due to the fact that all inboard engines need to be mounted near the bottom of the hull. If you were to take an Avy and sack it out to a point where the engine sits as low into the water as the engine of a fully ballasted 257, I guarantee you the Avy would be completely submerged over the gunwhales. Seeing that the Avy and the Ri will have similar exhaust risers, this is why the Ri will see hydrolocking where any "slammed" boat with less freeboard/draft won't. Assuming the engine in the Ri sits the same distance above the keel as the Avy (it's probably very close), where does the keel of a slammed Avy sit compared to a loaded Ri? The Ri 257 keel is sitting somewhere around 30" +(probably more) under the water. The Avy is probably more like 20" or less (this is a complete guess). That's probably confusing as its a hard concept to explain without drawing pictures. So in theory, you are absolutely correct and it makes sense that this isn't a common issue on most models. The explanation above should shed some light on why it has become an issue with the Ri's. Not sure if there have been similar issues on the G's and the M235's yet. Likely not as they are a different hull design and the engine wouldn't sit as low.

This issue isn't a result of the Silent Stinger plate. If you were to pull the stinger and the "accordion" looking exhaust hose off, you would see a baffle in the exhaust. Similar to what you would see on an older inboard exhaust that doesn't have FAE, Silent Tip, or a Stinger Plate. The issue is simply due to how low the exhaust risers sit in relation to the water line. The 237's and 217's are less likely to experience this issue.

Edited May 30, 2017 by 257Tsunami

[RhuntIII 555]

Y'all are sinking these boats to where the swim deck is 12"- 20" Underwater!!! ...1500 pounds of lead

What's the thread gonna read "Left dead on the side of the rode..."  "Axle failed, bearings burned out..."

At what point do you stop adding extra weight and start surfing?

[Darkside 248]

The draft on 257 is insane! With factory ballast only is 45",   so with a bit of extra weight 48-50 would easily be possible.   

@NAW when you demo via dealer or factory, that is how they tell you to weight the boat.  Ram 100, all 3 rear bags 100%, very little if any center/bow.   So people are weighting like we have been shown.  

This is a design issue, fortunately easy solution,  drain Ram fill before floating.   The other option would be an exhaust "loop" that would get exhaust above water line.    The key iss educating people so they do it. 

 

[Darkside 248]

The draft on 257 is insane! With factory ballast only is 45",   so with a bit of extra weight 48-50 would easily be possible.   

@NAW when you demo via dealer or factory, that is how they tell you to weight the boat.  Ram 100, all 3 rear bags 100%, very little if any center/bow.   So people are weighting like we have been shown.  

This is a design issue, fortunately easy solution,  drain Ram fill before floating.   The other option would be an exhaust "loop" that would get exhaust above water line.    The key iss educating people so they do it. 

One other note, i am surprised by (some) of the haters.  If someone was to replace thier 750 bags with 1100's y'all would applaud, but if they add lead they are being unreasonable.  

Need i remind you the factory also decided these boats need more rear weight so they increased the capacity of all 3 bags.  

I love the 257, it is best boat I have ever owned, so far.  This is a first gen quirk, i have a solution i can live with, so no worries.

 

[DeltaFirstMate 16]

@chowder2016 and I personally know four professional wake surfers that are sponsored by centurion and they all ride 1,000-1,500lbs of lead in the back and one person has a 237. 

To help stop the drama here since it got a little out of hand, we are way BELOW the weight capacity setting for the boat...maybe we will add 2k of lead (jk jk). Fact is the boat can handle 14 people driver seat to back and we usually have 2 people on the back. That's about 400 pounds of people in the back. We technically can have at least 6 people in the back and that's around 1,000lbs of people. 

So yes we have 1,500lbs of lead instead of 1,000lbs of people fat. 

 

@DarksideR is also correct and now we know the trick. Maybe they will put a update or notification to all users. Before you fill up your PNP bags, make sure you fill your ram first. When you go dock for lunch, drain! 

p.s to recap my opening statement, professionals use HELLA lead and they are pros, so we do too. Lead helps the wake go bigger and more importantly longer for our out of shape, drink too much beer, regular average users. We need it!

 

-end. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by DeltaFirstMate

[257Tsunami 50]

2 hours ago, RhuntIII said:

Y'all are sinking these boats to where the swim deck is 12"- 20" Underwater!!! ...1500 pounds of lead

What's the thread gonna read "Left dead on the side of the rode..."  "Axle failed, bearings burned out..."

At what point do you stop adding extra weight and start surfing?

Haha. Amen.

I don't run any lead myself........yet. But I can see the addiction. The whole point after all is to have fun on the water. If that means adding lead to an already ridiculous 257 setup...... why the heck not. Who wouldn't want to surf that?

[eclipsesurfer 7]

Well Looks like my boat is #3 to this epidemic, I guess my thought is it has to be contributed to the silent stinger. these boats have been out  for over a year with none of these issues until the silent stinger. and my boat is a Ri237 so not limited to Ri257. I did notice the flapper for silent stinger is different than the flapper for non stinger boats.

 

[wheels 151]

46 minutes ago, eclipsesurfer said:

Well Looks like my boat is #3 to this epidemic, I guess my thought is it has to be contributed to the silent stinger. these boats have been out  for over a year with none of these issues until the silent stinger. and my boat is a Ri237 so not limited to Ri257. I did notice the flapper for silent stinger is different than the flapper for non stinger boats.

 

What kind of weight were you running? Anymore details of how yours occurred?

[wheels 151]

Is no one more worried about water getting into you engine and having premature bearing wear? I don't think one oil change will take care of all the water in motor. 

[King of Bling 0]

I was out with eclipsesurfer. I could be wrong with the exact numbers but boat not running 300#'s of lead in back lockers even ram fills were full Filled pnp's with the kids playing on swim platform. Platform was deep but nothing more than we demo'd it at. Went to start it and it was locked up. 

[eclipsesurfer 7]

2 minutes ago, King of Bling said:

I was out with eclipsesurfer. I could be wrong with the exact numbers but boat not running 300#'s of lead in back lockers even ram fills were full Filled pnp's with the kids playing on swim platform. Platform was deep but nothing more than we demo'd it at. Went to start it and it was locked up. 

this is exactly the setup

 

[carguy79ta 67]

my 257 will be ready for delivery end of June. I am going to call my dealer and discuss this.