PCM 409 vs. PCM H5

[DrNate 426]

In perusing the PCM website I noticed that their new H5 engines have replaced the 409's but I noticed that they have LESS horsepower, 355 vs. 409. I also noticed that the torque is 405 on the new H5's and I can't remember what it is on the 409.

 

From everything I have read, the H5 is just fine on the newer, bigger boats but is it because of the new ratio of 1.72:1?

 

If so , what is the ratio on the pre-2016 boats? Or is it because of the direct injection on the H5? Or both? Any thoughts appreciated.

Edited August 16, 2016 by DrNate

[DrNate 426]

The search feature was not working a few minutes ago. I came across this thread about the discussion, very informative. Apparently the new gear ratio helps a ton. Wonder if you could swap that in an older boat for more power without changing engine.

 

http://www.centurioncrew.com/index.php/topic/10408-new-engines-for-2016-anyone-know-specs/?hl=%2B409+%2Btorque

[h20king 794]

It's a combination of both. Gear ratio for 16 is 1.72 to 1 where as pre 16'is 1.42 to 1. With the new gear ratio running listed is around 3600 -3700 rpms and quick surf is from 3900 - 4200 rpms. Now go back and look at the 409 and h5 power curves. The h5 makes as much or more power from 3500 -4200 rpms. Now go look at the standard 5.7'it makes almost as much power at operating range as the h5 and 409 but the h5'and 409 make more peak power. If you feel you need an engine upgrade you need to go with the h6 to get a noticeable gain. Advantage of the new drive is it allows for a bigger prop allowing more power to be put to the wate plus the increase in rpms allows the engine to stay in the power band letting it operate more efficiently increasing gph

[DrNate 426]

Thanks for the info H! I find it all very fascinating. Any chance that you have access or a link to the power curves?

[Tommywalton1974 175]

It's a combination of both. Gear ratio for 16 is 1.72 to 1 where as pre 16'is 1.42 to 1. With the new gear ratio running listed is around 3600 -3700 rpms and quick surf is from 3900 - 4200 rpms. Now go back and look at the 409 and h5 power curves. The h5 makes as much or more power from 3500 -4200 rpms. Now go look at the standard 5.7'it makes almost as much power at operating range as the h5 and 409 but the h5'and 409 make more peak power. If you feel you need an engine upgrade you need to go with the h6 to get a noticeable gain. Advantage of the new drive is it allows for a bigger prop allowing more power to be put to the wate plus the increase in rpms allows the engine to stay in the power band letting it operate more efficiently increasing gph

. Those rpms seem so high for surf speed. My 230 with the black scorpion turns 3100ish to haul a loaded boat with 2500lb ballast. I'm only at 150' above sea level though. I'm sure if I added lots more ballast the rpms would increase a bit. I would be very unhappy loading and surfing my boat at 4200 rpm. At that rpm I bet it drinks fuel like crazy Edited August 17, 2016 by Tommywalton1974

[DarksideR 1,679]

My friends S238 is the most fuel efficient surf boat I've ever been on. I don't understand how his is so efficient compared to my FS33. But I swear as I put more hours on it, it's getting better and better. 43 hours now.

[rrd525 40]

We just burned 335 litres of fuel for 15 hours of surfing, pulling a 3 man tube, and wakeboarding.

That works out to about 6 GPH on the EX343 with a 1939 prop @ an elevation of 900'. RPM in the 3200 to 3400 range.

We were mainly surfing with Quick surf as we were giving a variety of riders a shot.

[h20king 794]

My friends S238 is the most fuel efficient surf boat I've ever been on. I don't understand how his is so efficient compared to my FS33. But I swear as I put more hours on it, it's getting better and better. 43 hours now.

yeah mine to im averaging 3.8 GPH per hour surfing listed blows me away how cheap this thing is to operate.

[DarksideR 1,679]

We just burned 335 litres of fuel for 15 hours of surfing, pulling a 3 man tube, and wakeboarding.That works out to about 6 GPH on the EX343 with a 1939 prop @ an elevation of 900'. RPM in the 3200 to 3400 range.We were mainly surfing with Quick surf as we were giving a variety of riders a shot.

Where were you? Not Alouette @900'.

[rrd525 40]

We had hit Osoyoos for the week.

Even had Extreme on hand in case we needed anything.

[DarksideR 1,679]

Haha! Cool. Their new RI looks completely insane. Didn't realize Osoyoos was that high. Now I know.

[viking 491]

haha all you guys and your GPH calculations. I don't want to know so I just fill er up, pay the Benjamin, and go boating.

[h20king 794]

haha all you guys and your GPH calculations. I don't want to know so I just fill er up, pay the Benjamin, and go boating.

I'm the same way but it's hard not to notice how much less fuel this boat goes through when we top off before each outing.

[Cdifranco 463]

I'm the same way but it's hard not to notice how much less fuel this boat goes through when we top off before each outing.

 

I agree I don't do it to be cheap. You have to pay to play, I do it to track the overall hourage history of my boat. And its an added resale topic to be able to say your average season is going to cost you this much $ on top of the price of sale

[CO Surfer 289]

I absolutely love my H5....except for the original thermostat.

[Race City Marine 60]

H5 on my S238 will pull up stock ballast +500lbs lead...so 3200 +11 people up to wakeboard speed without a whole lot of drama. Also can hit at least 42 mph when empty and doesn't sweat surfing at all. So I'd say it's a winner. We will see on the next fill-up but gas is trending at 5GPH or less. I def notice a big difference in performance between base 343 and the H5.

[h20king 794]

H5 on my S238 will pull up stock ballast +500lbs lead...so 3200 +11 people up to wakeboard speed without a whole lot of drama. Also can hit at least 42 mph when empty and doesn't sweat surfing at all. So I'd say it's a winner. We will see on the next fill-up but gas is trending at 5GPH or less. I def notice a big difference in performance between base 343 and the H5.

I call BS I have driven both and can't tell the difference the H6 is the only real upgrade

[Race City Marine 60]

I call BS I have driven both and can't tell the difference the H6 is the only real upgrade

BS on what part? I've driven...well, many, with the stock 343 this year and prior. I think it's actually a 340, although this isn't consistent in all the literature, which is a PCM 343 with an indmar type impeller setup and different engine cover. At any rate, I def see a significant difference between that and the H5. The H5 hauls. Versus the 409, I can't really say, although many people doubt how much difference there is between the 343 and 409.

 

I can't remember exactly but the H6 was another 5K or so above the H5, so I didn't think it was worth it.

[h20king 794]

The H5 is a 5.3 liter with almost the same useable power ratings as the 5.7 the 409 gets it's name from cubic inches not power and it as well has about the same useable power as the standard 343 or crusader 5.7. Although sold as an upgrade you don't get much for what you pay for. Although both might make a little more peak power it is not in the rpm range we use. I have the standard engine in my 238 and my buddy has the h5 in his. I have spent time behind the wheel of both and cant tell the difference. Now the h6 is a different story that is the real upgrade that engine is a beast.

[Bongo Fury 640]

I can't speak to the new engines but I have to say that I noticed a significant difference between the 343 in the boat I demoed and the 409 I put in mine. I noticed it instantly the very first time I put the hammer down..... JMTC