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stoked

Winterizing PCM 409

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stoked    1,042

I did the dirty deed today. We have no time left to get out, so time to put the boat away and dig out the surfboards as the storms will be coming up the east coast soon.

 

I'm a big fan of doing as much of my own work as possible on my boat, it's the best way to get to know it, since I'm new to the PCM 409 and couldn't find a DIY guide, I figured I'd post one here from the information I gathered from the manual, mainly so I can follow it again next time. This is for a 2015 FS33, but it should be similar for other boats with the 409.

 

First the parts I ordered per the winterizing instructions in my manual:

 

Fuel Filter Element PCM RP080026: http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=744
Piece of Mind (We live on a brackish bay with some salt in the air): http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1627
Stabil
5 quarts of SAE 15W-40 (I went with Rotella from the local marine supply)
5 gallons of antifreeze
I also have, but not necessary to the process:
Electric oil extractor (I had a hand pump last year, ain't doing that again...): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CX0WX4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
Kevlar Sleeves, if you've never worked around a boat motor before, you want these, there are sharp clamps everywhere and you'll slice up your forearms: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035X8L96
First thing I did was dump in 7 ounces of StaBil, that way when I run it later it can work through the system. I then removed the PnP bags, the shelves, and the engine walls to give myself some more room to maneuver.
Next I did the fuel filter, this guy:
671cEIh.jpg
Using a strap wrench I got him lose, it came off very easy and the new one went on just as easy. I used the T-9 on the rubber seal before putting on the new one. One thing to note, I hadn't run the boat in 2 weeks so I didn't need to relieve pressure in the fuel line. If you just ran it, slowly unscrew the filter.
Next Fuel Cell Filter. You can find him on the starboard belt side of the engine.
4X27bxZ.jpg
This was pretty freakin hard for me to get too, I had to go fetal in the locker which wasn't easy for me, I'm a 6'4" and definitely got stuck for 15 seconds at one point. Following the manual it says to remove the hose at the bottom, take out the drain and disconnect the wires (one on the bottom, one on the top). The only thing I did was disconnect the wires. The drain plug according to the manual was supposed to be 7/16 but it was way larger than my largest wrench which is a 3/4. I tried to take off the hose, but it was on there very very tight. So I removed the bolt from the clamp at the top and wiggled the canister down. Once I had it off I poured some of the gas out. Getting the filter element out was pretty hard for me, my hands wouldn't fit down far enough into the canister. I used needle nose pliers to get it to the top, then had to finagle it to remove it. I put the new one in, changed out the o-rings (there were two of them, just above my finger):
eO6lwQS.jpg
I put the canister back on (make sure it is completely even all the way around, otherwise the compression clamp won't seat right). Also make sure you reconnect the two connectors, it will greatly confuse you later when the boat won't start if you don't. I'm glad I changed this, I almost didnt, I only have 60 hours on the boat and this is what the old one already looked like:
tcmMGo0.jpg
With the fuel system back together, it was time to get the engine warmed up. I have a flush kit installed, so I connected my hose up and turned the water on. I then primed the fuel pump (after connecting the wires) by turning the ignition on for 5 seconds, off for 10 seconds, then back on. It fired right up. I let it run for 10 minutes till it got above 160 degrees.
While it was warming up, I winterized the ballast. I removed the overflows from all of the PnPs and manually blew the water out with my mouth. I then removed the fills and one at a time I hit Override Drain on each PnP and while it was running I poured antifreeze directly into the fill hose. This took an entire gallon for all three.
By this time we were warm. I pulled the dip stick and measured it against my oil extractor hose, I added an inch and marked it with black tape so I knew how far to insert it into the dipstick tube. I did not use the oil drain hose because 1) I couldn't find it and 2) even if I did find it, they installed the bilge pump directly in front of the drain, so I wouldn't have gotten it out without removing that. So I used my extractor instead. This took less than 10 minutes. Once it was finished I replaced the dip stick and used my strap wrench to remove the oil filter (didn't take a photo, you really can't miss it). Careful with this guy, he's filled to the top with insanely hot oil. I used some of the old oil to seat the rubber seal on the new filter and screwed it in. I then added 5 quarts of oil and that was that.
I have mixed feelings about the next step, removing the plugs and draining the system. I run antifreeze through the system, so it seems like a silly step. I'm open to arguments about it, but for now I did it. When I removed each plug, I cleaned it off and rewrapped it with teflon tape. If you follow the Water Flow Diagram from your manual, the first one I removed was Plug 3 on the bottom right of the heat exchanger:
h4qWdeM.jpg
Plug 3 is also a Zinc Anode, it should be about an inch and a half long, according to the manual you need to change it out once you're half that length.
Next was plugs 4 at the bottom of the exhaust manifolds on either side, these little jerks aren't bolts:
ZW0EjY6.jpg
They are on the bottom of each exhaust housing, conveniently labeled Raw Water Drain. These take a 3/4 socket to unscrew, luckily I had an adapter:
IiZKyQ5.jpg

Next plugs 5 up top on the exhaust corners on both sides:

 

zxDPSvi.jpg

 

And now the hidden plug, Plug 6. It's under the V-Drive and is the same jerky plug as Plugs 4. You can't see this guy, just feel around for him:

 

HdSC1MY.jpg

 

And finally the oscar the grouch plug, Plug 7. In the future I will not be removing this one, he's silly and insanely hard to get to. It's blurry but he's at the top of the blue hose, just on the other side of the clamp on the right. He's against a mounting bracket that nearly makes it impossible to get to him, also two drops of water came out when I finally did get him out:

 

pQ0yc4T.jpg

 

Finally I checked out the thermostat per the manual, it's this guy behind the heat exchanger (I took the top plastic off the engine):

 

RdpSuSk.jpg

 

He came out easy enough, but I had a BEAR of a time getting him open. I had to use large channel locks and a large adjustable wrench a lot, and I mean a lot, of leverage. There is supposed to be a screen inside that needs to be cleaned, mine did not have said screen and mine was also installed upside down. Given the damage my channel locks did to the outside, and the fact I could not even get it anywhere near as closed as it was when I pulled it, I'll probably order a new one.

 

Now we're at the part that made me question draining everything. I have the Bucket Ape, so I connected it to my flush kit, filled the bucket with 4 gallons of antifreeze and started her up. No antifreeze was being sucked through. Draining the entire system left no water in it to prime the water pump. So I had to rehook up my water hose and refill the system just so that it would pull antifreeze through. I didn't have this problem on my black scorpion, but I did here. So why did I just drain everything?? I think in the future, I'll just run antifreeze through, it I wasn't going to do that, I could see draining everything.

 

Now finally pulling the impeller. If you thought it was bad getting to the fuel cell, you haven't seen anything yet. Remove the plastic top and the plastic protector that is covering the belts. There are two bolts, one on top and one under the closed system overfill bottle. Take the belt off of using the tensioner. This guy is 16mm and under the over flow bottle, you have to push it away from you as hard as you can and remove the belt when there is enough slack. Here he is, my wrench is pointing at him, you can see we're right below the overflow bottle:

 

sHDoNuA.jpg

 

Once the belt is loose, switch over to the other side. Take a 11mm socket and extension with you and curl all the way up under the locker to your head almost hits the back of the boat. I'm going to be sore for days after doing this part. We're looking for the pulley with 3 allen bolts on it:

 

19NQd5D.jpg

 

Don'e remove the allen bolts!! Instead rotate the bulley till you can access the three bolts behind it via the three openings in it, there's small guys but completely loosen them (don't worry, they can't fall). Here's a shot of one of them:

 

mbBZ6Sa.jpg

 

Once they are all loose, pull the pulley off, this will also separate the water pump and you'll be able to pull the impeller. Put this guy back on and take a look at your impeller. If he looks alright, store him somewhere that you'll remember in the spring as well as a place that will remind you to put him back in in the spring. Mine didn't look so hot, he had some weird grooves:

 

UVeYrf8.jpg

 

So I'll be ordering a new one this week, and throwing it on the dash so I remember.

 

All in all I have mixed feelings about doing this winterization versus when I used to do it for my Avy. I'm glad there are no more blue plugs that strip every time you try to put them in, but I don't like all the different plug types of the 409. The water pump was easier to remove on the 409, in theory, but WAY harder to get to. I'm also a little worried about how I couldn't get antifreeze through the system until I filled it water. I'm a little less concerned because it will be indoors in a climate controlled warehouse. But, with the impeller out I'll probably get a low flow pump and pump and push another 2 gallons through the system for piece of mind (even though there is already 4 gallons in it).

 

Things I didn't do: flush the closed system. the manual said not to, I did however top off the overflow bottle. I didn't flush the heater. Shane said that on the 409 it is apart of the closed system. I didn't change the transmission fluid. The manual said not to, to only change it if inspecting it shows debris. I checked mine and it looked good and was full. I did everything else the manual asked of me

 

I think this is going to be my winterization plan: I'm going to winterize it myself every other year and let the professionals do it the in between years. This is my first brand new boat, so I want to make sure it gets everything it needs, especially if I can't give it to her...

 

 

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Bongo Fury    641

Man...thats a very detailed write up. I will probably never attempt it myself but greatly appreciate learning from your detailed step by step. Thanks for the post!

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viking    491

Nice write up Stoked! And very timely as I'm going to winterize my ride in the next few weeks.

Looks like all of your listed part numbers are the same for my Challenger 405 (6.0L) and most of the process is the same except I will need to blow my heater lines out.

 

I have the same flush kit and heard that they do NOT pull water/antifreeze. Only the pressure of the hose or gravity fed will work. So I'm assuming you had your bucketape sitting up higher than the flush adapter to get the anit-freeze to flow and it would not even do that when you drained first?

 

Also the oil filter part number in my manual is 22679? But I think the one you listed is what I need cause the description on Bakes is PCM GM equipped with remote oil filter?

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stoked    1,042

Nice write up Stoked! And very timely as I'm going to winterize my ride in the next few weeks.

Looks like all of your listed part numbers are the same for my Challenger 405 (6.0L) and most of the process is the same except I will need to blow my heater lines out.

 

I have the same flush kit and heard that they do NOT pull water/antifreeze. Only the pressure of the hose or gravity fed will work. So I'm assuming you had your bucketape sitting up higher than the flush adapter to get the anit-freeze to flow and it would not even do that when you drained first?

 

Also the oil filter part number in my manual is 22679? But I think the one you listed is what I need cause the description on Bakes is PCM GM equipped with remote oil filter?

 

So I tried multiple methods to get antifreeze through and only one worked in the end, when I first started the boat, the pressure was enough to pull some antifreeze in then it would stop. So I had to start and stop my boat like 15 times to finally get 4 gallons through (which is probably what happened to my impeller). I just picked up this guy: http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-PC2-115-Volt-Portable-Transfer/dp/B000CPZTEK with the impeller out I'm going to use it to push 2 or 3 more gallons through the system just for piece of mind. If I winterize myself again next year, I'll probably drain the entire system, then pull the impeller, then use this to push antifreeze through till it comes out.

Edited by stoked

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Stretch    409

Best get that board waxed Joaquin's comin for us

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DarksideR    1,680

Excellent write up and how to! Thanks!

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stoked    1,042

Best get that board waxed Joaquin's comin for us

As long as it goes out to sea! Right now it looks like it could make landfall in my backyard

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Cdifranco    464

Still can't believe they named it joaquin...

Edited by Cdifranco

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Stretch    409

Best get that board waxed Joaquin's comin for us

 

As long as it goes out to sea! Right now it looks like it could make landfall in my backyard

I know, hope for us too that it kicks back out. Not supposed to hit NC quite as hard but still calling for pretty bad stuff.

 

 

I think it's actually because it's a popular Spanish name and the name list is from an international list of English French Spanish etc for our area.

 

 

Awesome right up btw :)

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Babylon    23

FWIW, the oil drain-hose on my boat (ZR450) is laying near the top of the engine on the starboard side. I use a vacuum-based oil-extractor and instead of inserting the hose down the dip-stick pipe, I just unscrew the cap on the drain-hose and shove the hose from my vacuum-based oil extractor down through the oil-drain hose until it enters the bottom of the oil pan. That works well for me and less worry about getting the hose stuck in the dip-stick pipe.

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Nice write up. I will be doing my EX343 in another month or so.

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stoked    1,042

For those playing along at home, that pump I got from Amazon is a champ. With the impeller out I pumped 4 gallons through the system and had it coming out of the exhaust in less than 1 minute

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viking    491

Thanks for the update. Did you just plug the garden hose from pump to the flush kit input, other side into buckets of Anti freeze, and make sure your main intake valve was off (and impeller out)?

Could there be any negative outcomes for pumping fluids in like that vs. using water pump to pull it in? I can't think of any...........

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stoked    1,042

I have an adapter for a garden hose by the swim platform that runs to the flush kit, so I just hooked up the pump to that and the pump to my bucket ape. I did have to make a double female hose though for the bucket to the pump since both were male adapters.

 

The flush kit has a check valve in it that when water comes in via this source, it doesn't allow it to flow out the main (mine was still shut though for winterized purposes).

 

I was trying to think if there was anything negative as well. The only way there would be is if there is something internal that only opens when the engine is running. But since antifreeze came out the exhaust, I assume we're good. The only inline thermostat is on the closed system as far as I know.

 

Next time I winterize myself, I'll use the pump with the impeller in and the engine running.

Edited by stoked

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Babylon    23

Just one thought. I don't have any experience with flushing kits so I can't speak to those. However, in all of my boats, as long as there is no air leak on the intake side of the sea-water pump, the cooling system creates a lot of vacuum and will pull the water through with no problem. If you have even small air leaks on the intake side, you have to prime the system with water to effectively close the air leak.

 

In any case, you don't want to have any air leaks at all on the intake side of the sea water pump so it is good to look for those. On my previous Enzo (2007 240) I had to apply lots of teflon tape to the little blue plugs that were on the intake side or the boat wouldn't always pump water properly, even when on the lake. This can lead to overheating. On my boat I could detect this problem when using a fake-a-lake. If the boat didn't pull all of the water out of the fake-a-lake when the engine was running, there was an air leak. Literally, when the cooling system was working properly, only a few drips of water would drop out of the fake-a-lake once the engine was running. Those rubber impellers can be fragile but they generate a lot of vacuum when the motor is running.

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DarksideR    1,680

Winterization.... Complete :(

First off, THANK YOU stoked! Your write up helped a ton. But, I'd like to add to it only slightly.

 

The heat exchanger anode takes a 5/8 wrench.

The front exhaust bolts take 11/16 wrench.

And the V-drive and exhaust "plugs" take a 1/2 not 3/4 socket adapter like you stated. At least on my 409 anyway.

 

Again, thank you for your very helpful thread!

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stoked    1,042

Winterization.... Complete :(

First off, THANK YOU stoked! Your write up helped a ton. But, I'd like to add to it only slightly.

 

The heat exchanger anode takes a 5/8 wrench.

The front exhaust bolts take 11/16 wrench.

And the V-drive and exhaust "plugs" take a 1/2 not 3/4 socket adapter like you stated. At least on my 409 anyway.

 

Again, thank you for your very helpful thread!

 

Yeah, the different wrench sizes was really annoying. Nothing like getting yourself all fetal in the locker to find out you don't have the right wrench...

 

So I'm interested if you came across two things:

 

1) What did you do with "plug 7" the little jerk that was on the intake line heading to the water pump? Did you ignore him? I think I will next time

2) How did pulling antifreeze through the system go for you? It wasn't happening with me and I'm curious to see if anyone else had that problem (if not I guess I have a problem). Or did you do what I finally did which was remove the impeller and push antifreeze through the system with a pump?

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DarksideR    1,680

Yeah, I ignored plug 7 like you said. Aaaaaaannd, I didn't really do a "full" job I guess. I just changed the oil and filters and pulled all the plugs and drained all the water. Didn't put in any antifreeze as the boat will be in my garage anyway and I'll have a heater ready to go if it does get below zero. It rarely does here in Vancouver. I drove the boat around for a few minutes with all the plugs out to shake any water that might be in there free and left the V-drive plug out as well. Zip tied the plug in a bag on the steering wheel to avoid the chance of a really bad day.

 

Question. When you pulled the impeller, did water come out of there to? I'm sure there was.

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stoked    1,042

Yeah, I ignored plug 7 like you said. Aaaaaaannd, I didn't really do a "full" job I guess. I just changed the oil and filters and pulled all the plugs and drained all the water. Didn't put in any antifreeze as the boat will be in my garage anyway and I'll have a heater ready to go if it does get below zero. It rarely does here in Vancouver. I drove the boat around for a few minutes with all the plugs out to shake any water that might be in there free and left the V-drive plug out as well. Zip tied the plug in a bag on the steering wheel to avoid the chance of a really bad day.

 

Question. When you pulled the impeller, did water come out of there to? I'm sure there was.

 

A tiny bit came out that was stuck in between the fins, but no gushing like when I pulled the manifold plugs

 

I was all backwards doing this. Drained, refilled, then pumped antifreeze through.

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DarksideR    1,680

Yeah, if I do end up keeping this boat, I'll be installing a flush point like I did on my last boat. I hate the fake a lake. And while on the topic. On my last boat, I never used to drain the water. I just flushed with antifreeze till I seen red coming out the exhaust. Then an old Crew member (islander) told me to drain a little and just look at the color. It was SO diluted that the water was VERY light pink. Barely noticeable. So, I started draining the water first. Then flushed with antifreeze.

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stoked    1,042

I installed a flush kit on mine, I kind of need it because we spend some time in brackish water, so I flush after every use. The problem I had with pulling antifreeze through is that I wouldn't get it to build up enough suction from the water intake to the inline flush/check valve to the 4 feet of hose to the transom to the additional 4 feet of hose to my bucket of antifreeze. Even though I had zero leaks, I'm still a little worried that I have a bad seal somewhere in the line.

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DrNate    426

Thanks for the detailed write-up, was a very interesting read. Fortunately where I live I don't have to deal with draining the block or running antifreeze through, etc. but after reading this I'm not sure I would even attempt to change my own impeller. No wonder the shop hates working on my boat so much, I don't blame them!

 

My old Indmar engine sure seemed so much easier for maintenance!

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stoked    1,042

Thanks for the detailed write-up, was a very interesting read. Fortunately where I live I don't have to deal with draining the block or running antifreeze through, etc. but after reading this I'm not sure I would even attempt to change my own impeller. No wonder the shop hates working on my boat so much, I don't blame them!

 

My old Indmar engine sure seemed so much easier for maintenance!

The impeller was a BEAST!! My black scorpion was way easier to get to. I do think there is a trade off though. With the 409, you just take the front off, albeit you need to be a contortionist. The scorpion was easier to access, but you had to pull the fuel separator out and then pull the entire water pump out just to get it apart.

 

I think the real hard part is going to be putting the impeller back in...

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viking    491

bottom drain plug on fuel filter is a 7/8.................

I'm glad I changed out filter too!

post-3649-0-11301700-1447639356_thumb.jpg

 

Also a trick I learned a long time ago was to use a zip lock back over the oil filter to ensure no mess when removing. Worked like a charm!!

post-3649-0-24431900-1447639681_thumb.jpg

 

I flushed with anti-freeze after I warmed engine up. Then I drained. Yes probably $20 down the tubes but small price to pay for a peace of mine.

No problem at all getting it to suck the anti-freeze using the adapter that came with the flush unit (had to have the valve for the raw water "off" when using the plug)

post-3649-0-68673500-1447639818_thumb.jpgpost-3649-0-22336800-1447639843_thumb.jpg

 

Also blew out the heater lines with air compressor!

 

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stoked    1,042

bottom drain plug on fuel filter is a 7/8.................

I'm glad I changed out filter too!

 

Also a trick I learned a long time ago was to use a zip lock back over the oil filter to ensure no mess when removing. Worked like a charm!!

 

I flushed with anti-freeze after I warmed engine up. Then I drained. Yes probably $20 down the tubes but small price to pay for a peace of mine.

No problem at all getting it to suck the anti-freeze using the adapter that came with the flush unit (had to have the valve for the raw water "off" when using the plug)

 

 

Also blew out the heater lines with air compressor!

 

 

I like the oil filter trick!! Never even thought of something like that, so simple!!

 

Nice catch on the flush, I need to find that guy for next year!

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