First Gen Ramfill

[SurfsUPWS 52]

Mini Mexicans that were cross bred with the Fraggles that'll manually open and close the valves when given small electric shocks! Obama finally got something right !

 

Now I'm wondering how many of you are old enough to know what Fraggles are. And how many of you think I'm a racist. LOL

 

Now that made me spit coffee out my nose. Damn that burns but is fraggle funny!!!!

[Stretch 409]

Do you think only operating the valves at lower speeds relieve some pressure they "see" and lead to less failures? 10mph is minimum correct? so would them only operating between 10-12 mph increase life span?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Stretch

[DarksideR 1,679]

Do you think only operating the valves at lower speeds relieve some pressure they "see" and lead to less failures? 10mph is minimum correct? so would them only operating between 10-12 mph increase life span?

 

Quite possibly. For the fills anyway. The drains shouldn't matter. And they fail just as much.

[IROCNParts 108]

ya I agree they both fail but I usually put my turd to 15mph to fill it and as it fills it slows.

Edited July 11, 2015 by IROCNParts

[stoked 1,039]

I got my boat back from the dealer and they couldnt get the valves to fault there, but they still replaced the PDM that controls the valves. Within 30 min on the water I got a RAM fault error on my Valterras from the port side this time and it wouldn't drain now... I had to pull it manually to empty it.

Just got this error yesterday, then it went away. How did their fix go on your boat?

[Lak3surf3r 714]

Just got this error yesterday, then it went away. How did their fix go on your boat?

I decided to surf all weekend and buy a new diesel tow rig instead of taking the boat in so I just manually used the drain valves lol. Im taking it in on thursday before I go out for the weekend so ill let you know asap.

[Stretch 409]

Just got this error yesterday, then it went away. How did their fix go on your boat?

 

 

I decided to surf all weekend and buy a new diesel tow rig instead of taking the boat in so I just manually used the drain valves lol. Im taking it in on thursday before I go out for the weekend so ill let you know asap.

Sounds like somebody needs to bring hat new tow rig over to my thread. PICS!

[byerman 5]

2014 SV 233 Ramfill drain problems.

I bought the boat in 2014. It has about 35 hours on it. I had problems on the second outing. The ballast said it was empty but the boat was very heavy on the port side. The dealer told me that the o-rings had failed. They were replaced quickly by the dealer. Within a short time, I continued to have the same problem. They were replaced again when the boat was de-winterized. I am recognizing problems better now. I am now out of state and the port ballast will not drain. After speaking with my mechanic, I was able to get it to drain using an allen wrench and turning it manually clockwise 1 full turn. I was referred to a mechanic here in Tahoe that sounds like he is very competent and likely is going to swap out the drain valve on the port side. He seems to understand the issues Centurion is having. He tells me that that Centurion has changed vendors for the valves he is going to use to replace my port valve. The boat is essentially new and I am so frustrated with the problems with the ramfill system. Several people have talked about lubing the valves. Are you spraying lube up the drains? Is there a fix that is working? I love the boat when it works but about every other trip out I have had problems. What is Centurion's "end game." I really hope that this can be fixed and I can be satisfied Centurion owner. Nothing is better for Centurion than happy boat owners and nothing is worse than discontent boat owners. If they fix my issues, I will the best spokesman they could have. I guess I am rambling but I am so frustrated.

[DarksideR 1,679]

I've been spraying a silicone lube just like you said. Still have the occasional stuck valve. Usually just opening and closing them a couple times gets them working. Sometimes I need to give them a helping hand with the keys or Allen wrench while my wife pushes the button on the screen. I like to make sure they are working before hitting the water.

[byerman 5]

I've been spraying a silicone lube just like you said. Still have the occasional stuck valve. Usually just opening and closing them a couple times gets them working. Sometimes I need to give them a helping hand with the keys or Allen wrench while my wife pushes the button on the screen. I like to make sure they are working before hitting the water.

Darkside,

Thanks. Let me make sure that I have this right. You spray lube up the drain from behind the boat. Then you test your valves. If they don't work, you manually turn them once or twice. I just checked my valves. I can hear the motor on each of them. Is there a way to tell if they are really opening?

[DarksideR 1,679]

Darkside,

Thanks. Let me make sure that I have this right. You spray lube up the drain from behind the boat. Then you test your valves. If they don't work, you manually turn them once or twice. I just checked my valves. I can hear the motor on each of them. Is there a way to tell if they are really opening?

Yes and no. I don't manually turn them. Having a second person helps big time here. You can a: get a flashlight and watch from outside the boat if the port opens and closes while the other person activates them on the screen. Or b: place the long end of the Allen key in the receptor and have the other person activate it on the screen. In b, if the key doesn't turn immediately when you hear the motor, give it a little assistance. Be careful not to get your fingers caught in there though!

My experience has been that when they get stuck, they just need a little help to free up, and then they're good for the day. Sometimes just opening and closing them a couple times on the screen will free them up. Sometimes you gotta get in there. The fill gates are definitely easier to deal with then the drains. Especially once you've got PNP bags filled.

Edited July 17, 2015 by DarksideR

[byerman 5]

Yes and no. I don't manually turn them. Having a second person helps big time here. You can a: get a flashlight and watch from outside the boat if the port opens and closes while the other person activates them on the screen. Or b: place the long end of the Allen key in the receptor and have the other person activate it on the screen. In b, if the key doesn't turn immediately when you hear the motor, give it a little assistance. Be careful not to get your fingers caught in there though!

My experience has been that when they get stuck, they just need a little help to free up, and then they're good for the day. Sometimes just opening and closing them a couple times on the screen will free them up. Sometimes you gotta get in there. The fill gates are definitely easier to deal with then the drains. Especially once you've got PNP bags filled.

Darkside,

When I go to my ballast screen on the boat, I can not open and close the valves. They do not respond. I can do it through the trailer mode screen. Should they open and close using the standard ballast screen if I am stationary? I ask because I am curious if I have a computer problem or a valve problem. As frustrating as it is to have a boat that is so fickle, if this works, I will be happy to have a fix that will keep us on the water.

Thanks.

[DarksideR 1,679]

Darkside,

When I go to my ballast screen on the boat, I can not open and close the valves. They do not respond. I can do it through the trailer mode screen. Should they open and close using the standard ballast screen if I am stationary? I ask because I am curious if I have a computer problem or a valve problem. As frustrating as it is to have a boat that is so fickle, if this works, I will be happy to have a fix that will keep us on the water.

Thanks.

Oh yeah... There is a trick to that! Sorry. If you press and hold the drain button for a few seconds it will "force" open. Same goes for the fill button. They will open for approx. 20 seconds and then shut again. You'll see the stop sign thing pop up when it triggers.

[SurfsUPWS 52]

Oh yeah... There is a trick to that! Sorry. If you press and hold the drain button for a few seconds it will "force" open. Same goes for the fill button. They will open for approx. 20 seconds and then shut again. You'll see the stop sign thing pop up when it triggers.

 

Love the override!!!!

[byerman 5]

Oh yeah... There is a trick to that! Sorry. If you press and hold the drain button for a few seconds it will "force" open. Same goes for the fill button. They will open for approx. 20 seconds and then shut again. You'll see the stop sign thing pop up when it triggers.

Thanks for the help.

My local Centurion dealer contacted Fineline and put me in touch with a great guy in the Tahoe area. He has ordered the new valve and will put in next week. Despite the issues, they have all responded quickly and have been more than helpful.

[Lak3surf3r 714]

So I took my boat in to the dealer for Centurions "5 min fix" on the new valves. Their genius solution was to spray the connections with dielectric grease.... EL OH EL as you can probably guess that didnt help. Luckily I am taking the boat in tomorrow to get the drain valves replaced yet again along with the wiring harness to the drain valves, and several other warranty issues fixed.

[IROCNParts 108]

lol wtf. Who's giving them this info. The problem is the valves are pooh.

[Lak3surf3r 714]

lol wtf. Who's giving them this info. The problem is the valves are pooh.

Exactly! Fix the root cause instead of trying to band aid the problem. That was finelines attempt to quickfix a serious issue when my dealer was trying to troubleshoot with them which obviously still left me manually draining the tanks.

[Babylon 23]

I have been watching this thread for awhile and this must be incredibly frustrating for the owners experiencing problems with their RAMFill. Heck, I get frustrated just reading about it. I also own a 2015 FS44 with about 40 hours on it so far (Valterra valves - no problems yet). It is pretty ridiculous that no one at the dealer seems to know what is wrong with nasmith's boat. The electrical/mechanical valve system that controls the RAMFill ballast is pretty simple. Here is one way that the dealer could go about debugging this. This analysis is only for the Valterra valves. The earlier valves just sound too wimpy to be reliable IMHO. For the Valterra vales, the problem is likely one of the following:

 

1. The motor controlling the valve cannot produce enough torque to reliably move the valve-gate. First thing that the dealer should do is verify that the currently-installed valve works when provided with sufficient voltage/current by connecting the valve directly to a separate power supply and verifying the valve behavior by cycling the power several times. If the valve works under this configuration, go to step 2, else replace the valve and go to step 1 to verify the installation of the new valve.

 

2. Excessive voltage drop through the wiring harness. Connect the power supply up to the wiring harness and verify that the valve will open and close reliably via the harness. Also, measure the amount of voltage drop that occurs over the wiring harness when the valve is actuated. If the voltage drop is too high for reliable operation, use larger gauge wiring in the harness and/or check the connectors to make sure that they are not dropping the voltage due to bad connections. Go to step 3.

 

3. Insufficient voltage/current from the touch-screen interface. Attempt to cycle the valves using the boat electronics (the touch-screen interface). Measure the voltage drop and current when cycling the valves. Make sure that the voltage and current that are provided to the valve are sufficient for reliable operation. If the voltage is insufficient, you may need to replace the related electronics. Or, if the Centurion engineers didn't spec. this properly, this is a bigger problem.

 

4. Battery voltage is insufficient. Make sure that the voltage provided by the battery is sufficient to cycle the valves. Charge battery if necessary. For what its worth, my batteries are always on a high-end charger when the boat is not in the water. This alone has eliminated funky electrical problems on my other boats. It seems like these systems are only designed to work with the voltage that is generated from a completely charged battery. With the large stereo systems on current boats, I doubt that the batteries are completely charged during a typical day if the stereo is thumping all day long as it typically is on my boat. You may have a 100-amp alternator on your boat, but that is only enough to power a 1200-watt stereo (and nothing else). If you are running your stereo at full volume all or most of the day, your batteries will probably not get fully charged.

 

5. It is also possible that the valves, as designed and constructed, are not well-matched to the application and will not operate reliably. Although this is possible, I also know people who are not having any problems with these valves so I am not sure that this is the case. It is also possible that some of the installed valves came from a bad batch of valves. This seems unlikely because nasmith has had a whole box of valves thrown at his boat with no success. Perhaps the valves don't like getting wet? I don't know.

 

The core problem is that the mechanics at the dealer are not really trouble-shooting things to discover the root problem. From the sounds of it, they just keep replacing valves, etc., and hope that the problem will go away. It is clear that they haven't found nasmith's problem yet. Of course, it is possible/likely that the list of debugging steps above is missing something. That is always the case. Still, it would make sense to go through those steps so that you could exclude those issues and eventually focus on the source of the problem.

 

As the electronics in boats become more complex, we are likely to experience more of these kinds of problems. The skills and expertise of boat mechanics are all over the map. In my experience many boat mechanics don't really understand electronics that well. Moreover, the seasonal nature of the work makes it impossible to keep talent because you can't keep good mechanics employed year-round. And, just swapping parts out and hoping for the best is not a recipe for success, especially with these mechanical/electronic systems. Centurion needs to train people so that they can debug and repair their boats. The poor mechanics usually have to figure this stuff out on their own and they are incredibly busy during the summer months.

 

For what it is worth, I generally do most of my own boat maintenance and repair even though I really like the boat mechanic at my dealer. I often speak to him to compare notes and to get the benefit of his experience but usually end up doing the work myself.

 

I teach computer engineering at the local university and just generally like tinkering with electro-mechanical stuff. I also teach my students a lot about debug, hence my interest in this kind of thing. Nasmith, if I lived in AZ, I would try to help you fix your boat!

 

I'm really sorry that something that should be relatively simple is causing so much trouble.

[Cdifranco 463]

I have been watching this thread for awhile and this must be incredibly frustrating for the owners experiencing problems with their RAMFill. Heck, I get frustrated just reading about it. I also own a 2015 FS44 with about 40 hours on it so far (Valterra valves - no problems yet). It is pretty ridiculous that no one at the dealer seems to know what is wrong with nasmith's boat. The electrical/mechanical valve system that controls the RAMFill ballast is pretty simple. Here is one way that the dealer could go about debugging this. This analysis is only for the Valterra valves. The earlier valves just sound too wimpy to be reliable IMHO. For the Valterra vales, the problem is likely one of the following:

 

1. The motor controlling the valve cannot produce enough torque to reliably move the valve-gate. First thing that the dealer should do is verify that the currently-installed valve works when provided with sufficient voltage/current by connecting the valve directly to a separate power supply and verifying the valve behavior by cycling the power several times. If the valve works under this configuration, go to step 2, else replace the valve and go to step 1 to verify the installation of the new valve.

 

2. Excessive voltage drop through the wiring harness. Connect the power supply up to the wiring harness and verify that the valve will open and close reliably via the harness. Also, measure the amount of voltage drop that occurs over the wiring harness when the valve is actuated. If the voltage drop is too high for reliable operation, use larger gauge wiring in the harness and/or check the connectors to make sure that they are not dropping the voltage due to bad connections. Go to step 3.

 

3. Insufficient voltage/current from the touch-screen interface. Attempt to cycle the valves using the boat electronics (the touch-screen interface). Measure the voltage drop and current when cycling the valves. Make sure that the voltage and current that are provided to the valve are sufficient for reliable operation. If the voltage is insufficient, you may need to replace the related electronics. Or, if the Centurion engineers didn't spec. this properly, this is a bigger problem.

 

4. Battery voltage is insufficient. Make sure that the voltage provided by the battery is sufficient to cycle the valves. Charge battery if necessary. For what its worth, my batteries are always on a high-end charger when the boat is not in the water. This alone has eliminated funky electrical problems on my other boats. It seems like these systems are only designed to work with the voltage that is generated from a completely charged battery. With the large stereo systems on current boats, I doubt that the batteries are completely charged during a typical day if the stereo is thumping all day long as it typically is on my boat. You may have a 100-amp alternator on your boat, but that is only enough to power a 1200-watt stereo (and nothing else). If you are running your stereo at full volume all or most of the day, your batteries will probably not get fully charged.

 

5. It is also possible that the valves, as designed and constructed, are not well-matched to the application and will not operate reliably. Although this is possible, I also know people who are not having any problems with these valves so I am not sure that this is the case. It is also possible that some of the installed valves came from a bad batch of valves. This seems unlikely because nasmith has had a whole box of valves thrown at his boat with no success. Perhaps the valves don't like getting wet? I don't know.

 

The core problem is that the mechanics at the dealer are not really trouble-shooting things to discover the root problem. From the sounds of it, they just keep replacing valves, etc., and hope that the problem will go away. It is clear that they haven't found nasmith's problem yet. Of course, it is possible/likely that the list of debugging steps above is missing something. That is always the case. Still, it would make sense to go through those steps so that you could exclude those issues and eventually focus on the source of the problem.

 

As the electronics in boats become more complex, we are likely to experience more of these kinds of problems. The skills and expertise of boat mechanics are all over the map. In my experience many boat mechanics don't really understand electronics that well. Moreover, the seasonal nature of the work makes it impossible to keep talent because you can't keep good mechanics employed year-round. And, just swapping parts out and hoping for the best is not a recipe for success, especially with these mechanical/electronic systems. Centurion needs to train people so that they can debug and repair their boats. The poor mechanics usually have to figure this stuff out on their own and they are incredibly busy during the summer months.

 

For what it is worth, I generally do most of my own boat maintenance and repair even though I really like the boat mechanic at my dealer. I often speak to him to compare notes and to get the benefit of his experience but usually end up doing the work myself.

 

I teach computer engineering at the local university and just generally like tinkering with electro-mechanical stuff. I also teach my students a lot about debug, hence my interest in this kind of thing. Nasmith, if I lived in AZ, I would try to help you fix your boat!

 

I'm really sorry that something that should be relatively simple is causing so much trouble.

babylon nice post. I agree that the techs I have dealt with do not seem 100% sure of how the systems actually work but were looking to just replace the non functional unit with a new unit. They don't really want to spend the time to trouble shoot the system as there is minimum benefit for them to fix Centurions design problem. I could understand why they'd prefer to just replace new because the overhead cost of the number of hours it takes to trouble shoot the system outweighs the benefit from just replacing new it takes away from other time they could be charging someone actual labor.

 

Would there be any way we as a forum could get a member or members to be a close knit part of Fineline to trouble shoot circumstances like this. Who better to listen to than the people who put many hours on their boats per season. Or does Fineline simply not care.