Help me plan a new ballast system? Or not?

[Stretch 409]

so, as in my other maintenance thread, I have no water coming in or any pump action at all for the 3 tank system on my 2002 elite v. It has the sprinkler valve set up, and I have been informed from wylie that im in an interesting spot where if I replace the pump it might just be a bandaid for when the (not so loved around here) valve system ruins another pump.

 

Further, I want to upgrade the hard tanks to 750 or 900 sacs anyway, and the GF wants me to get rid of the overboard pumps so am thinking I need to plumb my 540 in under the port seat.

 

So, I am thinking 4 aerator pumps (with check valves before each sac) and 4 dedicated out pumps, of which I already have 3 and they seem to just be bilge pumps anyway. I guess ill need to wire in one more rocker switch for the port seat bag

 

How difficult is the task I am looking at? What is my budget looking at (minus the locker sacs)? seems from 5 pumps (4 aerator tsunamis, and a bilge) that will be around what 150 dollars? can this be done for 250? hose fittings etc? Thinking sumo sacs would mean I only need regular 1 inch hose fittings.

 

Or should i just try to replace my sprinkler valves/stock intake pump and cross my fingers and deal with overboard pump (since it seems a piggyback system on the same plane is a bad idea)

 

Thanks everyone

[kriskussee 9]

I used 8-1000 gph aerator pumps on my build, 2 dedicated fill, 2 dedicated empty on each side & 3/4" tubing. It was the least expensive (and use the least power) way to go and I thought it would fill and empty much faster moving that much water. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't use aerator pumps, i'd use 4-750 gph Johnson's and i'd use 1" tubing (aerators move water don't like to lift or pressurize it). You'll pay 40% more for your pumps and tubing but they move water more efficiently (faster fill / empty times, are self priming and the same pump fills and empty). Sprinkler valves, check valves cause resistance, manual valves you have to work by hand; but then you KNOW if they are open or closed (and cost less). Make your plumbing runs as short as possible.

If you plan to keep the boat for a while, spend the extra $. It may be cool to push one switch, sit back, suck down some "liquid courage" and 20 min later you have 1500 lbs of water in your boat; or open / close a few valves push a switch and in 10 min you are surfing!

[Stretch 409]

I used 8-1000 gph aerator pumps on my build, 2 dedicated fill, 2 dedicated empty on each side & 3/4" tubing. It was the least expensive (and use the least power) way to go and I thought it would fill and empty much faster moving that much water. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't use aerator pumps, i'd use 4-750 gph Johnson's and i'd use 1" tubing (aerators move water don't like to lift or pressurize it). You'll pay 40% more for your pumps and tubing but they move water more efficiently (faster fill / empty times, are self priming and the same pump fills and empty). Sprinkler valves, check valves cause resistance, manual valves you have to work by hand; but then you KNOW if they are open or closed (and cost less). Make your plumbing runs as short as possible.

If you plan to keep the boat for a while, spend the extra $. It may be cool to push one switch, sit back, suck down some "liquid courage" and 20 min later you have 1500 lbs of water in your boat; or open / close a few valves push a switch and in 10 min you are surfing!

could I just use 2 johnsons for 4 bags? Unfortunately there is literally no way I can spend 500+ dollars on pumps right now.

[Stretch 409]

Ive found that simer pumps can be had rather cheaply (quickly found one at 84 dollars online) and they appear to be reversible and a decent set up. Would this be recommended to go with over the aerators?

[boatnut 230]

I am by now way a expert in ballast by any amount of words, but after following this thread, wouldn't it be better to save up for a while get the money, and then do it right, instead of putting money towards a band aid solution? For the time being just enlist a couple of large friends to come along

[Stretch 409]

I am by now way a expert in ballast by any amount of words, but after following this thread, wouldn't it be better to save up for a while get the money, and then do it right, instead of putting money towards a band aid solution? For the time being just enlist a couple of large friends to come along

So it seems. Unfortunately, those options seemed to be used by a lot of people, so I was thinking they were more than just a band aid, guess not

[boardjnky4 8]

I don't think Aerator pumps are as bad as they are made out to be. I have them in my Axis and they work just fine. Not quite as simple plumbing, but they also draw way less amperage so you don't need long runs of expensive wiring either.

[boatnut 230]

Oh I didn't mean the ideas here are bad... Just make sure it's the right thing and do it once. I had tsunami pumps in my tige, and never had one fail nothing wrong with em....

Pumps are pumps, they all fail!!!!!, trust me I sell boilers and pumps for a living!!!

Edited April 9, 2015 by boatnut

[Audionly101 39]

Ive found that simer pumps can be had rather cheaply (quickly found one at 84 dollars online) and they appear to be reversible and a decent set up. Would this be recommended to go with over the aerators?

I used simer pumps in my budget Elite V ballast system. They do work great especially for the price. The only reason to not use them is they are NOT ignition marine protected. Meaning they could potentially cause a spark internally when in use.. I had my pumps mounted in a very well ventilated area so I did not worry about it very much. The simer pumps come with a extra impellor in the kit although I never needed one for the hours of use I had running my pumps. I even tapped into my ballast system to run a garden hose for a slip and slide a few times. The pumps ran constantly for hours without any issue.

[RhuntIII 555]

My thoughts. Save some cash and use the Johnson pumps with the 1" lines. Rip out all the old plumbing and go with new.

 

http://www.centurioncrew.com/index.php/topic/5596-2002-avy-mods-ballast-salt-water/

 

This is the system I installed in my boat. I run these pumps in both fresh and salt water with no problems. I also have two auxiliary lines for extra bags, bilge pumps or water cannons. I'm very pleased with the hard work Bigcatpt did and followed his lead.

[Bigcatpt 408]

I used 8-1000 gph aerator pumps on my build, 2 dedicated fill, 2 dedicated empty on each side & 3/4" tubing. It was the least expensive (and use the least power) way to go and I thought it would fill and empty much faster moving that much water. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't use aerator pumps, i'd use 4-750 gph Johnson's and i'd use 1" tubing (aerators move water don't like to lift or pressurize it). You'll pay 40% more for your pumps and tubing but they move water more efficiently (faster fill / empty times, are self priming and the same pump fills and empty). Sprinkler valves, check valves cause resistance, manual valves you have to work by hand; but then you KNOW if they are open or closed (and cost less). Make your plumbing runs as short as possible.

If you plan to keep the boat for a while, spend the extra $. It may be cool to push one switch, sit back, suck down some "liquid courage" and 20 min later you have 1500 lbs of water in your boat; or open / close a few valves push a switch and in 10 min you are surfing!

Kris! Welcome back!!!!

[Bigcatpt 408]

You can run 4 sacs off of 2 johnsons. Just run it through a simple manifold and you are good to go. Simple reversible design. Check out this blog from knuckledragger from a while back. Good stuff here. http://customfalconballast.blogspot.com/

[DarksideR 1,679]

You could do it all with two pumps, or even one if you want. Just build a manifold system where you can divert water through valves. I'd suggest at least a two pump system though. Then you can add more pumps and remove the manifold or even change it just a bit to run multiple pumps at the same time.

 

Dammit... he just beat me^^^^

 

There's a hundred different ways to skin the ballast cat. Do what works for you and your budget.

Edited April 10, 2015 by DarksideR

[Bigcatpt 408]

You could do it all with two pumps, or even one if you want. Just build a manifold system where you can divert water through valves. I'd suggest at least a two pump system though. Then you can add more pumps and remove the manifold or even change it just a bit to run multiple pumps at the same time.

Beat you by 2 minutes!!! LOL. Great minds think alike!

[DarksideR 1,679]

LOL. I would have beat you if my wife didn't ask me to feed the dog at just the right moment! Damn dog! LOL

[RhuntIII 555]

I went with the diverter valves over the manifold. Both seem to work well.

[Stretch 409]

I like this idea, ive found a deal on a lightly used johnson, and found a new one for 150... so 2 reversibles are looking to be the route for me at this moment, running 4 tanks off them. Now, on to this question. I have at my disposal, 2 540 bags, 2 350 bags and a center tank that I cant move haha

 

Should I make it even and run 540 in each rear locker, center, and a 350 under port seat for surfing

 

or

 

Should I run 540 port locker, 540 under port seat, center and 350 on starboard locker

(filling 540 port to around 350 when wakeboarding to balance them)

Edited April 10, 2015 by Stretch

[RhuntIII 555]

I'm not sure on the dimensions of your boat and the sacks you have.

 

My magic (OCD) 8ball tells me go with equal weight and the 350 under port. You will find a goofy rider that can drive your boat well.

 

BTW the center hard tank in my boat, I just left as is and added the port Avy sack and a couple of 400's on the floor and seats.

[kriskussee 9]

could I just use 2 johnsons for 4 bags? Unfortunately there is literally no way I can spend 500+ dollars on pumps right now.

Yes, you will just need to make a manifold so you can switch from one bag to the other so you can use both pumps to fill and empty. If you have custom sacs made make sure you have an additional port to use an auxiliary to help fill, empty or transfer

[Stretch 409]

So, I have saved up enought that I think I can go with 3 johnsons reversibles. The current thought is a dedicated pump for each rear locker, then a 3rd pump that will have a manifold to fill the center hard tank, and the port under seat bag. (a 540 that shouldn't fill all the way, but im guessing I would get like 400 in it).

 

From another that had an elite v, it was suggested I look into bow weight. So was thinking a 350 bag under either bow side seat, with a t fitting coming off that 3rd johnson pump.