Installing Perko Battery Switch & New Optima Deep Cycle Battery, question about wiring

[Bojik 0]

That will do what you want...if what you want is what I think (place to wire accessories separate from starting)...the purpose of the relay is to take two batteries and use them for starting...BUT if the combination of the two batteries is not sufficient amps to start the boat, it will trigger the relay to remove the accessories from the current draw on start and when the alternator takes over and suppliments the amps the batteries didn't have, will re-enable the accessories. If you have a newer car, when you turn the key forward to start, you may notice the stereo and headlights shut off then come right back on after starting...the purpose is the inital drop in available amps triggers the relay to isolate the accessories from the mix leaving all the amps for the starting. I don't know about your boat but mine already has the relay built in (07 Avy C4) and when I stepped up to a two battery config with the switch on 1+2 I have enough amps that the relay never opens to disable the accessories so the stereo keeps on playing during starting. What I am not sure about on that combo unit is it appears to only have a position 1 and position 1+2...but not a position 2? If I make it to Overtons this weekend I'll see if they have it in stock and look...but the picture or description doesn't show it. If your batteries are of two different ages then being able to charge them independantly is needed without more (expensive) equipment. If you're looking for an automatic charging isolator/integrator (that more expensive equipment I just mentioned)...that's not it!Steve

From what I am reading the Blue Sky package has an 'OFF' (obvious) an 'ON' (where engine is isolated from accessories, normal usage) and a 'COMBINE' (to combine the batteries for emergency starting). And the ARC will charge both batteries while the engine is running. Why would I need anything else?

I understand the option of locking the switch. But why have a switch that you have to move?

move battery switch to battery one to start,

move battery switch to battery two to relax and listen to music,

move battery switch to combine to charge both batteries while engine is running,

etc.

I intend to buy new batteries so the age of may batteries is not an issue.

One other question, would the ballast pumps go on the engine side or the accessory side?

[ReSession 165]

Yup - I bought a Stinger distributor already, but wanted to make sure that everything worked out correctly before I started cutting wires!

 

Greg

[srhoffman 0]

Ok, let me try this...I'll explain each of the positions of the switch and if you wire it as the instructions say on page 4 of the pdf manual you'll get:

1) Off...obvious

2) Battery 1

In this position you have two completely isolated power sources...battery 1 will power the motor for starting. Only this battery will charge when the alternator is active. Battery 2 will power any accessories hooked up directly to it (i.e. wired directly to battery 2) but will NOT be charging when the boat is running. The relay is not doing anything in position 1 (even if you wire in the "Start Isolation Switch").

3) Combined

In this position both batteries will be charged when the boat is running. With the "start isolation switch" wired up, the combined amps of both batteries 1 and 2 will be used AFTER an attempt to start the boat is made and to provide (theoretically) twice the amps for anything that runs off battery 1. The accessories wired to battery 2 will only have access to the amps made available by battery 2. The relay comes in to play when one of two conditions are met, the first is that you wired the "start isolation switch" to your ignition and second when your total volts from the combined batteries 1 and 2 drops below 10.8V, in either event the relay will temporarily put you back into "Battery 1 Mode" by removing battery 2 and hopefully allow the boat to start then when you release the key or the alternator kicks in, the relay will put you back into combined mode and start charging both batteries again.

 

Ok (and if you got all that already I don't mean to insult you..not my intent..just explain for all if I can). The problem with that solution is that...what if it's battery 1 that is too weak to allow for starting...but battery 2 has a full charge (this will happen closer to the end of the batteries life obviously). This solution assumes that it's battery 2's fault that there's not enough juice to crank the engine and cuts it out of the loop...but if it's the other way around, you'll need to manually swap the batteries. Furthermore, if you wire in the "start isolation switch" then you'll not have the benefit of the combined amps on starting...only after start.

 

Does that explain it better? I like the four position switch (off, 1, 2, 1+2) and leave mine in 1+2 all the time. Everything but the amps (stereo, lights, starting, ballast, etc.) are wired to the selector switch but I do not have any further accessory isolation so my dilema will be (knock on wood) that if the combined batt's 1 and 2 don't have the juice and 1 or 2 by themselves don't have enough juice I can't try it again with no accessories...but at that point I've pretty much turned everything off anyway and started praying. Lets hope it doesn't come to that ever!

 

Hope this helps!

Steve

[Bojik 0]

2) Battery 1

In this position you have two completely isolated power sources...battery 1 will power the motor for starting. Only this battery will charge when the alternator is active. Battery 2 will power any accessories hooked up directly to it (i.e. wired directly to battery 2) but will NOT be charging when the boat is running. The relay is not doing anything in position 1 (even if you wire in the "Start Isolation Switch"

 

I am assuming that by 'Battery 1' you mean the "ON" switch position.

If I read the the first page the the pdf, it says: "Automatically combines batteries during charging, isolates batteries during engine cranking and when not charging." And: "The COMBINE BATTERIES function offers the ability to combine two battery banks in the event of a low battery".

So in the "ON" position;

When starting, the switch starts the engine from battery 1, keeping battery 2 separated so the radio, lights, etc do not black out during the startup (as long as the optional start isolation 16AWG wire is installed correctly).

And both batteries are charging while the engine is running

If battery 1 does not have enough power to start the boat, the switch can be set to "COMBINE" where the switch tries to use both batteries to start the boat with as you said '(theoretically) twice the amps'. Once started the switch needs to be set back to the 'ON' position for both batteries to charge.

 

With this switch only, you set the switch to have battery 1 or battery 2, or battery 1 and battery 2.

So in position 1:

Only battery one is connected (so no radio, lights, etc or any item that is connected to battery 2)

If charged enough, battery 1 will start the boat

While the engine is running only battery 1 is charging

In position 2:

Boat will not start (battery 1 is not connected)

Radio, lights, etc will work (or any item connected to battery 2)

If switched to battery 2 while the engine is running only, battery 2 will charge

In position ALL:

Both batteries will be used to start the boat, if battery 2 has a low charge the radio, lights, etc blackout will occur

Both batteries are charged while the engine is running

 

I am not trying to be a pain but why would you buy the switch only? When for $80 more you can have something that will almost insure that both batteries are always getting charged and battery 1 will not be drained by the items connected to battery 2 (when being used with the engine off).

If you have the switch only and set it to battery 2 on accident, only battery 2 is getting charged when the engine is running. So if you sit with the lights and radio going, with the engine off and battery 1 (for one reason or another) is drained and you drain battery 2, the boat cannot be started. I see all of the issues with the above scenario but...what if?

The one thing I do not know is if you have the switch on battery 1 and battery 2 and sit with the radio and lights going (battery 2 items) will it also drain battery 1 or once battery 2 goes dead the radio, lights, etc will not work till battery 2 gets recharged.

I need to be sure I get this one right cause if the wife ever takes the boat out and gets stranded due to a dead battery I will never hear the end of it.

[h20king 794]

You are over thinking it.All you need is the switch that srhoffman suggested.On the back of the switch you have three lugs one for battery one another for battery two and a post for the common.Run the power wires from the batteries to to the lugs on the switch.Run the main harness power wire and the power wire for your amps to the common.Run all the grounds to the battery's using star grounding hook no power wires for any accessories to the battery.Also add an onboard charger and plug the boat in every time you take it out of the water so you always go out with a full charge.If you are worried about forgetting to turn the switch just run the boat on one battery so you have a fully charged battery on reserve and use a different one each time out if you upgrade to two group 27 battery's you will be surprised how long one battery will last you unless your just floating for hours blasting tunes.If you want a charging isolator you can go that route but how they work is they detect which battery is low and send the charge to the battery in need it is not needed but if you want one check out the links these are the parts I recomend....................H

http://bluesea.com/category/1/products/9001e

http://www.newmarpower.com/Battery_Isolator_Integrators/Battery_Isolator_Integrators.html

http://www.pmariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=42012

[Bojik 0]

Ok, H20 got me straight on everything except for the wire size.

I want to relocate the batteries to the starboard side in front of the drive seat. There is a huge space there where I am going to build a new divider panel with a easy access door for when I need to get to the batteries. Any issues?

In doing so I may need to install new wires from the batteries back to the engine. Currently the red and black wires say 2/0, and I will replace with the same if needed. But what sized wire should I use for all other wiring? None of the existing wire is marked but I think it is 4G.

[h20king 794]

I would not relocate the batteries to in front of the driver eventually you will want to add a sub and that is where everyone puts them.Run the main 2 gage power wire to the center lug on the switch for the rest use four gage unless your batteries are more than six feet from the switch if so two gage for everything.Another reason for not relocating is if you ever operate alone the boat will lean to one side while underway with the combined weight of the driver and batteries............H

[Bojik 0]

Another reason for not relocating is if you ever operate alone the boat will lean to one side while underway with the combined weight of the driver and batteries............H

that is what the port ballast are for

[prv321 0]

Ok, let me try this...I'll explain each of the positions of the switch and if you wire it as the instructions say on page 4 of the pdf manual you'll get:

1) Off...obvious

2) Battery 1

In this position you have two completely isolated power sources...battery 1 will power the motor for starting. Only this battery will charge when the alternator is active. Battery 2 will power any accessories hooked up directly to it (i.e. wired directly to battery 2) but will NOT be charging when the boat is running. The relay is not doing anything in position 1 (even if you wire in the "Start Isolation Switch").

3) Combined

In this position both batteries will be charged when the boat is running. With the "start isolation switch" wired up, the combined amps of both batteries 1 and 2 will be used AFTER an attempt to start the boat is made and to provide (theoretically) twice the amps for anything that runs off battery 1. The accessories wired to battery 2 will only have access to the amps made available by battery 2. The relay comes in to play when one of two conditions are met, the first is that you wired the "start isolation switch" to your ignition and second when your total volts from the combined batteries 1 and 2 drops below 10.8V, in either event the relay will temporarily put you back into "Battery 1 Mode" by removing battery 2 and hopefully allow the boat to start then when you release the key or the alternator kicks in, the relay will put you back into combined mode and start charging both batteries again.

 

Ok (and if you got all that already I don't mean to insult you..not my intent..just explain for all if I can). The problem with that solution is that...what if it's battery 1 that is too weak to allow for starting...but battery 2 has a full charge (this will happen closer to the end of the batteries life obviously). This solution assumes that it's battery 2's fault that there's not enough juice to crank the engine and cuts it out of the loop...but if it's the other way around, you'll need to manually swap the batteries. Furthermore, if you wire in the "start isolation switch" then you'll not have the benefit of the combined amps on starting...only after start.

 

Does that explain it better? I like the four position switch (off, 1, 2, 1+2) and leave mine in 1+2 all the time. Everything but the amps (stereo, lights, starting, ballast, etc.) are wired to the selector switch but I do not have any further accessory isolation so my dilema will be (knock on wood) that if the combined batt's 1 and 2 don't have the juice and 1 or 2 by themselves don't have enough juice I can't try it again with no accessories...but at that point I've pretty much turned everything off anyway and started praying. Lets hope it doesn't come to that ever!

 

Hope this helps!

Steve

 

The Perko solution will work fine, but the above explanation is not how the Blue Sea system works! I had the Perko switch on my last boat and it worked great, but required user intervention and was therefore prone to the occasional user mistake (especially after a few beers). With the Blue Sea system, you turn it on and that is it. Here's why:

 

In the ON position (you called it Battery 1), when the engine is running, BOTH BATTERIES ARE BEING CHARGED - this is because the Automatic Charging Relay (AGC) senses the alternator voltage and closes. When you turn the engine off, the AGC opens and the batteries are now separate (isolated).

 

The boat is always started on Battery 1. If Battery 1 is low and won't start the boat (for whatever reason), you may turn the switch to COMBINE to use both batteries to start. This is only time you even touch the switch until the boat is back on the trailer and you turn the switch to OFF. COMBINE is for emergency start only. The amps, etc. are hooked up to Battery 2 (which could be more than one battery), so the boat will always start.

 

The advantage to this system is it's automatic! Leaving a Perko in 1+2 will lead eventually to a jump start . . . from another boat.

 

Scott

[prv321 0]

Where did I get AGC? ACR = Automatic Charging Relay

[rrd525 40]

Bringing this one back from the depths of the sea.

Our 238 came with the factory 2 battery, BlueSea Off-On-Combine Switch, BlueSea ACR and Powermania Turbo charger.
Our dealer had told us to always place it in Combine. Doing research yesterday for adding our 2nd amp, it looks like we should only be using the 'ON' position for the switch.  'Combine' will be for emergency start only, as the ACR handles all other charging during operation and floating?

PRV321's reply above seems to follow the theory.  Others say 'Combine' always.
 

[Jake707 171]

You should never need to combine unless your main battery dies on you.  I only select to ON when using my boat. This keeps the stereo and the engine batteries separate. I can, and have, played the stereo in a cove until the battery died but was able to start up the engine no problem because of the isolation from the switch. Had I been on combine, I would have had more time to listen to the stereo but would have killed both batteries and then been stuck. 

Either you heard the dealer wrong or they have no clue what they are selling. JMO but I would be leery with there service department after a statement like that. They might charge you double to change your headlight fluids..........

[Wylie_Tunes 146]

@rrd525

Your dealer is incorrect on the usage of your setup. ON when you get in the boat, OFF when you put it away and COMBINE is for emergency start. 

[rrd525 40]

Thank you both.
We always turn it 'Off' when put away. Try to plug it in and ensure a full charge after each outing. Doesn't happen every time, but often enough.
My family was all on the boat during the orientation, we all heard run it from 'Combine', and I questioned it. 
Our old boat had the 1 or  2 / or 1+2 Perko and we knew exactly how to run that.

Thanks again.