NC FACTORY VISIT

[MattJ 1]

What might be an interesting topic of discussion, is if you were to design an entry-level v-drive boat, what would you build, what standards and options would you include? I have a feeling that we'll be all over the board with regards to what "entry-level" should mean.

 

Some thoughts:

-Is 21' considered entry level? Why not 19' or 21'?

-Should v-drives be considered entry level boats at all?

-Fuel Injection vs. Carb

-Ballast or include a Fly High Brochure?

 

It would also be interesting to look at the manufacturing side of the equation looking at cost drivers. What does bayliner do to produce a sub-20' boat. As many others have pointed out, there are a number of components that factor into the final cost.

 

In the end, it comes down to what people are willing to pay. Mastercraft continues to sell boats (at ridiculous prices IMHO), but people buy a brand and support network (the MC personality and attitude come free ).

 

My two cents (really not even worth that) - MJ

[Colombian Surfer 2]

Standard Boat Company has a basic boat. I forget the cost of the boat, but it is a bare bones boat. Like many have said, once you start adding a tower, ballast, etc. to the boat that is when it becomes more of a custom than standard.

 

I remember when MC had the X1 at 39,995.00 with single axle trailer as standard. That price did not last long. Malibu came out with the Ride Series and it was around 39,995.00. That did not last long either. Centurion has and entry level boat now for surfing called the Wave. But for entry level you see what you get.

 

Everyone has and idea what they would like to have at entry level. But what is entry level to you, the consumer, is not entry level to the manufacture. Let's face it. Boat prices ARE NOT going to come down anytime in the near future, unless the market is flooded, and even then I do not see them coming down that much if any at all. They are going to go up and keep going up year after year after year. Then they will come out with a new model or different brand, like Axis, and start all over again. Axis was suppose to be Malibu's budget brand. The other day at my MB dealer they had a 2010 left over for $56K. So, like I said, is there really such thing as entry level?

[enzo101mo 98]

I bought my 2005 Enzo Sv230 brand new for 60,000. My friend bought his Avy in 2005 for 49,000 and both came equipt with

 

Storm Package

330HP.Black Scorppion

Sony Stereo with Four Sony speakers

Bow cussion

Snap out carpet

Storm Pro Flight Force tower

Perfect Pass

Sideswipe Exhauts

Polish stainless cup holders

Front & dual rear Balast tanks

Bimini top

Standard trim Plate

Teak Swim Platform

Ez Rider seat with Flip up

Leather wrap dash

Boat cover

Tubed trailer with alloy wheels

Lime Green Victory Graphics

windshield mounted rear view mirror

 

Now this was at the peck of the housing market ( when every body was happy) and before the ression, So go figure how come prices are jumping.

 

Po: Russel Marine is in there on little world and I sorry I recomend Centurion to them.

[Big Po 1]

I see your point Dave. It is more along the lines of personal preference as to what entry level is.

 

The WAVE sucks! I looked at one, but that thing is hiddeous. And it kinda looks retarded too (Just my opinion).

 

I think that the manufacturers just need to take a step back, and say....."Damn.......That's s chunk of change for a boat!" B/c, if they never see that or think that, then they will never drop the prices.

 

Granted, he who makes the pricing decisions probably make $500K a year, so to him $85K for an Enzo is chump change. But to the rest of the boating world it's not....It's expensive, and it's going to cause nothing more than depleted sales numbers....B/c folks will quit looking at Centurions if they're prices are just as high as MC's and Nautiques are. How can you expect folks to just pick yours over the rest??? When prices are comparable, it's virtually a toss-up. Someone who was interested in Centurion b/c they had heard they were good boats for a reasonable price will be confused when they get to their dealer, and see the price tag is just as heart-thumping as the Nautique 230 and MC X-30.

[Big Po 1]

Po: Russel Marine is in there on little world and I sorry I recomend Centurion to them.

They are insane. The only reason they charge that much is b/c all the rich people on the lake will continue to pay them and buy the new ones year after year....

 

It's people like the rich f***ers who screw things up for the little man, like me. If someone is willing to pay them $77,000 for a new, semi-equipped Avalanche, then why would they sell it to me for $60K???? They wouldn't, b/c they know a rich DR. or Lawyer or Judge will come bee-bopping in there and pay cash for it.

[LakeSurfer 10]

They are insane. The only reason they charge that much is b/c all the rich people on the lake will continue to pay them and buy the new ones year after year....

 

It's people like the rich f***ers who screw things up for the little man, like me. If someone is willing to pay them $77,000 for a new, semi-equipped Avalanche, then why would they sell it to me for $60K???? They wouldn't, b/c they know a rich DR. or Lawyer or Judge will come bee-bopping in there and pay cash for it.

 

How is it that rich people have screwed things up. Generally, people have become rich by building/selling a business which in most instances includes employing people and paying a lot of taxes. So please do not get me started. BTW Po, I bet you would not feel this way if you worked for 20 yrs building a business and made a lot of money.

 

Everything is about supply and demand. If a manufacturer can continue to live on $75K boats, then good for them (I personally dont think they can because the market is just not big for this type of boat). If you cant afford a new boat, buy a used one.

 

Like I said before, Dealer invoice on my 08 Avy was $45K for a nicely outfitted (trailer, tower, ballast, PP, bimini, etc) boat. So this boat should go for +/- $50K. I am just not sure why this boat is now +/- $60K.

 

Personally, I guess I would like to be able to get a new boat in the $50-$60k range (ie. Avy = $50K, 230=$55K and 240=$60K). This would allow people that can afford new ones to get them at a "reasonable" price and people that are looking to spend less to buy a nice 2 or 3 year old used boat in the $35-$45K range depending on model.

 

Would I love to see and Entry boat for +/- $35K? Sure, but my guess is that it would be impossible to build a boat for +/-$22K (which is what you would have to do to be able to sell it to avg Joe for $35K).

[Big Po 1]

How is it that rich people have screwed things up. Generally, people have become rich by building/selling a business which in most instances includes employing people and paying a lot of taxes. So please do not get me started. BTW Po, I bet you would not feel this way if you worked for 20 yrs building a business and made a lot of money.

 

Everything is about supply and demand. If a manufacturer can continue to live on $75K boats, then good for them (I personally dont think they can because the market is just not big for this type of boat). If you cant afford a new boat, buy a used one.

Look, I know how it works. My old man started a business almost 16 years ago, from absolutely nothing other than what he knew best. We still don't have alot of money, and probably never will. Just b/c you start/own a busines doesn't mean you are wealthy. I know how business works, I grew up all around it. I know all about supply and demand. I know alot of things, but most of yall still think I'm just a stupid 24 year old kid from Alabamer.....Awww shucks LouAnne, Maw done forget to fix me sumpin ta eat.....It's a-lookin like I'm-a have to go to that-thar gen'ral store down the street and get me a sodee-pop and a hamburger.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Big Po

[enzo101mo 98]

Po; You said Hamburg right.....Just kidding. You are right not all business owners are rich and a lot make it good one year and not the next. In my case the last 3 years

[Big Po 1]

Same here Enzo......We've been hurting for almost 1.5 years now. It's been unusually slow. Just when it seems like things are picking up......They slope back off to slow & steady grind....

[duffymahoney 10]

This is my ultimate idea!

 

I have talked to a somewhat local aluminum boat company, they custom build tons of boats. Even some for James Bond movies etc... They said they would build me a v-drive hull of my design, totally plush interior and fulled decked out for 40k. The only thing left would be install a ballast system with fly high bags. I would love love love an true aluminum wakesurf boat. I would just copy my avalanche, make it 24 foot, put a pickle fork on it make it have a foot taller top cap and 102 wide. I wouldn't paint the boat but leave it just stock aluminum color. I love that a 15 year old aluminum boat can still look brand new with a little elbow grease. The only real issue I can see is that aluminum boats are noisy. But I think that could be fixed with some insulation and or thicker aluminum. Could be awesome!

[Big Po 1]

Sweet! Take some pics! I wanna see this thing!

[LakeSurfer 10]

Look, I know how it works. My old man started a business almost 16 years ago, from absolutely nothing other than what he knew best. We still don't have alot of money, and probably never will. Just b/c you start/own a busines doesn't mean you are wealthy. I know how business works, I grew up all around it. I know all about supply and demand. I know alot of things, but most of yall still think I'm just a stupid 24 year old kid from Alabamer.....Awww shucks LouAnne, Maw done forget to fix me sumpin ta eat.....It's a-lookin like I'm-a have to go to that-thar gen'ral store down the street and get me a sodee-pop and a hamburger.

 

I never said you dont know how a small business works or that you are a stupid 24 year old redneck. I know that 3 out of 4 fail. Heck, I know way more than you since I work for one of the world's biggest restructuring firms. So I deal with business that are struggling on a daily basis. Maybe next time you will take 2 min to read the post before you respond. I said dont blame rich people that can afford these ridiculous prices and you cant. What I said is that most rich people built a success business with hard work over a long time period (and obviously against crappy odds)!

Edited September 27, 2010 by LakeSurfer

[Big Po 1]

Well, I'm sorry Mr. Highandmighty business superhero man. I guess I am just a dumb 24 year old worthless piece of chit........You're right. I guess I'll just go shoot myself.

 

 

 

 

 

Bye.

 

P.S. Thanks for the advice!

[boatdr 1]

I got it !! I just saw the new entry level boat, it is posted in the off topic forum under"new wake board model" Just to show where the is a will there is a way

[rawinnin 73]

Well, I'm sorry Mr. Highandmighty business superhero man. I guess I am just a dumb 24 year old worthless piece of chit........You're right. I guess I'll just go shoot myself.

 

 

 

 

 

Bye.

 

P.S. Thanks for the advice!

 

PO

Post like this are what open you up for personal attacks. I am beginning to think that is what you are wanting by your many post of this nature.

I have never seen anyone on the forum actually call you names or use profanity towards you as you choose to so very often.

I don't believe anyone actually dislikes you here. They just have a strong belief that you are immature, with good reason do to your words and actions.

 

To the community I apologize for getting In this post.

[Colombian Surfer 2]

LMMFAO!!! This is getting out of control, but funny at the same time. Po, do you walk to school in 5 feet deep snow uphill both ways? LOL!!!! Just kidding man!

[LakeSurfer 10]

Standard Boat Company has a basic boat. I forget the cost of the boat, but it is a bare bones boat. Like many have said, once you start adding a tower, ballast, etc. to the boat that is when it becomes more of a custom than standard.

 

So this is basically the most basic boat on the market. If you go to their website's Financing tab (http://standardboats.com/newpics.aspx) it shows that the MSRP is $29,800 (*Based on Standard Boat, $29,800 MSRP with $3,000 down @ 7.99% over 15 years, plus applicable taxes and $398 loan fee.).

Hull length

 

 

Length: 19 ft (21ft w/ Platform)

 

Capacity: 6 people ( 1300 lbs).

 

Max Beam: 84”

 

Fuel: 30 gallons

 

Weight: 2550 lbs.

 

FEATURES

MERCRUISER SCORPION 5.7L 335hp

 

Merc Smartcraft Monitor All-in-One Display

 

Smartcraft DTS Drive & Shift by Wire

 

Mercury Smart Tow Cruise with Launch Control

 

Ultra Low Emission Exhaust w/ Catalyst

 

4 year Mercury Backed Warranty

 

Tower or Ski Pylon

 

Custom Deck and Hull Coloring

 

Premium Marine Color Matched Seating for Six

 

Attwood– Visionaire Driver Seat w/ Bolster

 

 

Flip-Open Bow for 50qt Cooler and Dry Storage

 

 

Resin Infused 100% Composite Construction

 

Limited Lifetime Warranty

 

 

Not a bad list of options. The biggest problem is that it does not have an open bow and it is a Direct Drive. If you had these options with a DD and open bow this would be a nice Entry Level boat.

[Colombian Surfer 2]

That is about as standard as you can get for a wake board boat. Good job on posting all the info Lakesurfer.

[Big Po 1]

PO

Post like this are what open you up for personal attacks. I am beginning to think that is what you are wanting by your many post of this nature.

I have never seen anyone on the forum actually call you names or use profanity towards you as you choose to so very often.

I don't believe anyone actually dislikes you here. They just have a strong belief that you are immature, with good reason do to your words and actions.

 

To the community I apologize for getting In this post.

No, I am actually (believe it or not) very mature. I may make some rash and immature decisions from time to time, but those don't need to reflect my character. However, that's too late for this website.....I've already been thrown under the bus and will never recover....And I've accepted that fact. I was not opening up myself for personal attacks. I was being sarcastic, since no matter what I do or say, or who I try to help with what.....I am always wrong. Just another prime example.

 

And honestly...I think very few of you like me. It shines through in your posts (not your's per-say....Just generalizing). I am not stupid, I am quite perceptive, however...It is very difficult to tell one's tone through typing text.

 

Yes, I use profanity.....I use it everyday when I talk. It's just how I talk and everyone knows it.

 

And no, I wasn't calling him any names....I was just being a smartazz since he corrected me and then once again told me I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about.

 

And actually, we were staying on topic........The debate part of this thread has been on topic with the thread's subject matter.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Big Po

[MattJ 1]

Good info on the Standards Boat setup. I like the integration of the standard Mercruiser all-in-one gauges and DTS Engines (wonder if that's included in the base MSRP?). I've seen sport-fishing boat manufactures leverage the marine-bus technology to install a "generic" lcd panel for providing all-in-one displays; I wonder if you could use that same approach in a wakeboard boat to avoid custom engineering costs? Maybe this is part of Duffy's custom aluminum boat.

 

Also, something else to keep in mind when you look at new and/or small manufacturers is the dealer support network and financial viability of the manufacturer. That lifetime warranty is only as good as the manufacturer's ability to stay in business; same thing goes for the dealer. How many boat dealerships have gone under in recent years?

 

Back to the original topic of this thread, Centurion had to shutter a great factory to help maintain viability of the company. What would happen to boat values if Centurion went out of business?