PCM 409 vs. PCM H5

[h20king 794]

I can't speak to the new engines but I have to say that I noticed a significant difference between the 343 in the boat I demoed and the 409 I put in mine. I noticed it instantly the very first time I put the hammer down..... JMTC

to do a fair comparison you need to make sure both boats were equipped with the same prop.

[Bongo Fury 640]

Both had the high altitude prop......hey what seemed like a big difference to me may not be much to the next guy.....just sharing my experience.....some guys on the lake drove both boats and had the same opinion as me....

[h20king 794]

Like I said they have more peak power but not much though. When weighted for surfing that power is in a rpm range that we don't use. Look up the horse power and torque curves and you will see what im talking about.

[Tommywalton1974 175]

The H5 is a 5.3 liter with almost the same useable power ratings as the 5.7 the 409 gets it's name from cubic inches not power and it as well has about the same useable power as the standard 343 or crusader 5.7. Although sold as an upgrade you don't get much for what you pay for. Although both might make a little more peak power it is not in the rpm range we use. I have the standard engine in my 238 and my buddy has the h5 in his. I have spent time behind the wheel of both and cant tell the difference. Now the h6 is a different story that is the real upgrade that engine is a beast.

King, I see you said the newer Pcm is a 5.3? I've just been very curious about these newer power plants. So all of the newer pcms are LS based small block Chevys? No more gen1 vortec 350's like the black scorpion? do you have a link that has this info? It's like looking for chuck Norris I can't find anything on pcm's site taking about what gen small blocks they are using. I was assuming these are coil on cylinder LS engines looking at the catalytic converters. I just can't see a valve cover under all the plastic.

[Race City Marine 60]

The H5 is a 5.3 liter with almost the same useable power ratings as the 5.7 the 409 gets it's name from cubic inches not power and it as well has about the same useable power as the standard 343 or crusader 5.7. Although sold as an upgrade you don't get much for what you pay for. Although both might make a little more peak power it is not in the rpm range we use. I have the standard engine in my 238 and my buddy has the h5 in his. I have spent time behind the wheel of both and cant tell the difference. Now the h6 is a different story that is the real upgrade that engine is a beast.

 

Hmm...my experience has been different. When I take a dealership boat out (last year we only ordered the crusader 5.7 for stock) the boat struggles quite a bit more than my H5 when loaded up, so I prefer to demo my boat. I know for darn pretty well fact that the crusader 5.7 can't handle the weight that I throw at my H5. The first two pull ups of the day seem to suck with the H5, then it's like it's getting out of ECO mode and it really kicks in. We will either have to agree to disagree or fight it out. How big of dude are you? lol

[h20king 794]

Funny my boat does not struggle at all and I run more ballast than you but I am at sea level. I also heard no H5 for 17 so only a one year run. If you have customers that will spend for it than that's good my personal opinion will stay the same that the only upgrade to give more power in the rpm range we use is the h6

[Cdifranco 463]

I have the 343 in my 211 and I honestly couldn't imagine getting that engine in a bigger boat. Grant it I slam my boat with weight, I do have the high altitude prop but it needs more balls to push a bunch of people plus how I weight it.

[h20king 794]

New gear ratio puts the power band where you need it so the base engine is more than enough. I load over 4k in ballast when using quick surf and have no problem. I just ease into the throttle and get on plane no problem and my boat is considerably bigger than the 211. Go demo I think the new drive ratio will impress you.

[CO Surfer 289]

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/MarineEnginesControllers/ProductPortfolio.aspx

 

L83 is the H5. L86 is the H6. All I'll say is that I boat at 6,070' above sea level and absolutely love my H5.

[h20king 794]

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/MarineEnginesControllers/ProductPortfolio.aspx

L83 is the H5. L86 is the H6. All I'll say is that I boat at 6,070' above sea level and absolutely love my H5.

15 HP gain for how much more money over the 5.7 at a rpm range we don't use surfing? ? What you perceive as more power is from the weight difference between aluminum block and cast iron. Edited September 7, 2016 by h20king

[Tommywalton1974 175]

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/MarineEnginesControllers/ProductPortfolio.aspx

 

L83 is the H5. L86 is the H6. All I'll say is that I boat at 6,070' above sea level and absolutely love my H5.

Thanks I've been wondering. They are all LS engines except that vortec 5.7 that's te last of the old school gen1 like I have. I see major power potential here. When the aftermarket cracks the tuning, if they haven't already, a cam swap and tune can give an LS3 75 or more hp. also that 5.3 is beyond underrated and can make gobs of power. Edited September 7, 2016 by Tommywalton1974

[Race City Marine 60]

Here are the numbers I have:

 

EX3 5.7 -343HP/370TQ

H5DI 5.3 -355HP/405TQ

H6DI 6.2 -450HP/465TQ

 

The EX3 is fine for surfing unless you really like to load it and also want top end speed/economy. H5 pulling up a wakeboarder with 3300lbs ballast and 12 peeps and still being able to hit 42 when not loaded is beyond base performance in my mind. Plus the fuel economy is great, not for cost necessarily, but for convenience when leaving it on the lake.

 

We don't get the H5 or H6 unless it's special order, as it's not necessary like you said. At least Supreme is offering the 409 as an upgrade for '17. The price is not much of a bump over stock, so I think it's a great offering. I didn't think they were doing away with the H5, but I am not certain on that.

[CO Surfer 289]

It isn't the hp on these boats. It's the torque that matters. I've never had or driven a boat with the 343 so I have nothing to compare to.

I liked everything about the H5 over the 343 including the aluminum block and the direct injection. I have to believe that the DI is giving me better fuel economy.

[Tommywalton1974 175]

15 HP gain for how much more money over the 5.7 at a rpm range we don't use surfing? ? What you perceive as more power is from the weight difference between aluminum block and cast iron.

Haha no way. Al block weight savings is negligible and does not equal that much "percieved" horsepower. No way. LS engines aluminum and steel engines in all trim pack more power per liter than gen1 small blocks. But 75lb weight savings has nothing to do with anything in this arena with 4-5000 lb boats.

[h20king 794]

It isn't the hp on these boats. It's the torque that matters. I've never had or driven a boat with the 343 so I have nothing to compare to.

I liked everything about the H5 over the 343 including the aluminum block and the direct injection. I have to believe that the DI is giving me better fuel economy.

Are you sure I average 3.8 GPH

[h20king 794]

Haha no way. Al block weight savings is negligible and does not equal that much "percieved" horsepower. No way. LS engines aluminum and steel engines in all trim pack more power per liter than gen1 small blocks. But 75lb weight savings has nothing to do with anything in this arena with 4-5000 lb boats.

agree but was trying to be nice as some folks spent lots for the upgrade and as you know the 5.7 and the H5 has about the same torque and horse power at the usable rpm range. Not worth fighting about as it's not my money for the upgrade.

[h20king 794]

I'll post the link later off the pcm sight but the 343 is rated at 343 horse power and 430 foot pounds of torque which 45 foot pounds more than the H5 in torque but 13 horsepower less than the h5 so please someone explain where the upgrade is

[h20king 794]

Here is the link http://www.pleasurecraft.com/ex_ces.html

H5 link http://www.pcmengines.com/engines/hyperformance-five/

Edited September 8, 2016 by h20king

[h20king 794]

As you can see pcm rates power higher than the link co surfer posted but the 343 still wins

[h20king 794]

The 409 according to pcm gives you 60 more foot pound's of torque over the 343 so it was a better option than the h5 in my opinion.