NC FACTORY VISIT

[Kevin Baugh 78]

"$70K is a lot of money for 99% of the people."

No doubt about it!

 

We are part of the problem hey Malibu has this Nautique has that Mastercraft.... it is a tatta for tat adding things to the boats making them more plush add ballast add computer screens make the interior more plush hey that trailer needs better wheels if we go back to building boats like they were in the 90's

they would be a lot cheaper but would they sell we are all spoiled!!

 

The manufactures and yes I mean all of the are hanging on for their lives!!

Edited September 25, 2010 by Kevin Baugh

[CenturionSkier 43]

Kevin,

You have hit it right on the head. We all want our boats to be bigger, badder and neater than the next guys.

 

Imagine how cheaply they could build a boat, all white, one color upholstery, wood floors and stringers, AirGuide speedos, Teleflex generic gauges, cassette stereo with tinny speakers, no ballast, no tower, a trailer with white spoke wagon wheels, bias ply tires, single axle, no brakes, carbureted engine, 275 hp. $15,000.00

 

Wow, I think i just described my 1987 Centurion Tru-Trac II!!!

 

Yes we are demanding a lot more out of our boats, and just think how much of the resins, glues, carpets, vinyls are made out of petroleum. 1987 gas was about .75 a gallon, now it is almost 3.00 a gallon. So 4 times higher on the petroleum and that would put this basic boat at $60,000.00. And that is without any of the neat new stuff that has come into the market. So really the boat is a better bargain now than back then. I bet that Centurion and all the others are making less profit now than back then on a percentage bases.

 

Most of the manufacturers are just trying to survive this bad recession. So they would be happy to just break even, that could be why WakeBoard magazine is no where near as thick as it used to be. All of the companies are not advertising near what they where before it looks to me. And there are less companies in the watersports industry.

 

Sorry for the long post but I really am felling bad for my fellow North Carolinian’s that are loosing there jobs in Woodland. I have met lots of them on my visits and they are some really great folks. I sure hope the elections this fall can get some people in there that will find ways to get our country out of this financial mess.

 

R.I.P. Fineline Industries East, Woodland. Long live Fineline Industries, Merced.

[LakeSurfer 10]

Kevin,

You have hit it right on the head. We all want our boats to be bigger, badder and neater than the next guys.

 

Imagine how cheaply they could build a boat, all white, one color upholstery, wood floors and stringers, AirGuide speedos, Teleflex generic gauges, cassette stereo with tinny speakers, no ballast, no tower, a trailer with white spoke wagon wheels, bias ply tires, single axle, no brakes, carbureted engine, 275 hp. $15,000.00

 

This is not a very good example. I really can not imagine that oil based products make 100% of the items need to construct a boat. Just off of the top of my head I can think of engine, tower, trailer, stereo, etc. In addition, I dont really think these companies are spending a lot on R&D. The Avy/Enzo hulls have been basically the same for several years. The 2011 Pure Vert system was taken from Epic, so dont tell me that was a new technology. So just taking the price from 20 years ago and multiplying by 4 does not make sense.

 

What would make sense is for someone to explain why you could buy a solid wakeboard boat (Nati, Bu, MC, etc) in 2003/2004 for $50K and now that same boat is $85K (I bought a 3 yr old MC Pro Star 205V for $30K in 2004 and my buddy bought a 2 yr old SAN 210 for $36K in 2006). Also, I have the Dealer Invoice for my 08 Avy and the dealer cost was $45K with trailer, tower, ballast, PP, bimini, etc. So that would mean construction cost would be in the mid $30K. I cant imagine construction cost have gone up $15K (or 33%) in the last 2-3 years (which is the only way you could justify asking $65K for an Avy).

 

Reality is that the crazy economy of 2004-2008 allowed boat manufacturers to sell a crap load of very expensive boats to people that had no business buying them. Now the reality is that the market for wakeboard boats costing more than $50K is very small. Either way, I am sure glad I bought mine when I did, because pricing now is crazy. When I go to buy my next one, I will do what I did this time: buy used or buy a left over that a dealer wants to get rid of. Because until prices get more realistic or manufacturers decrease production even more, you will continue to have dealers go out of business and wholesale boats on the market.

[Kevin Baugh 78]

The Hull the deck the gelcoat the carpet the vinyl are all petroleum based products.

Are you saying that the engine, tower, trailer, stereo, etc. have not gone up at all in 6 years?

Plus add all the goodies that are now coming on boats standard that were not on the boats 6 years ago..... Look boats have gone way up and there are lots of reasons! It is not that the

boat companies have gotten greedy and are making a fortune on the boats. They are just trying to survive

[LakeSurfer 10]

The Hull the deck the gelcoat the carpet the vinyl are all petroleum based products.

Are you saying that the engine, tower, trailer, stereo, etc. have not gone up at all in 6 years?

Plus add all the goodies that are now coming on boats standard that were not on the boats 6 years ago..... Look boats have gone way up and there are lots of reasons! It is not that the

boat companies have gotten greedy and are making a fortune on the boats. They are just trying to survive

 

I am actually saying manufacturers have added a bunch of crap I dont care about (LCD screens, 405hp engine, blinged trailers, blinged interior, etc). I am also saying that cost have increased, but that is not what is driving 10-15% per year price increase. Add these together and you get a boat that is way over the top cost wise.

 

I agree all boat manufacturers are hurting.

Edited September 25, 2010 by LakeSurfer

[Colombian Surfer 2]

I really love my boat! I know it is an expensive hobby/life style, but it is a choice that I made. We all made the same choice somewhat and yet we mean woman/complain about the cost and I too am in the same boat. But these "Hobby's" are fun and what we really love to do with our family's. Eventually I will get another boat. Enzo is my 1st choice. It may cost, by that time, $70K. But you know what? I will pay it because it is my life style and it is what makes my family happy. We all do things that cost a lot to make our family happy. We all just happen to choose boating.

 

Today, my wife fell in love with a house boat that was a couple years old, but they were asking $495K. Worth it? Who knows. But to someone it was or will be.

 

My pops always told me that if someone makes it, someone will buy it.

[Kevin Baugh 78]

Ditto!!

[Kevin Baugh 78]

"(LCD screens, 405hp engine, blinged trailers, blinged interior, etc). I am also saying that cost have increased, but that is not what is driving 10-15% per year price increase. Add these together and you get a boat that is way over the top cost wise. "

 

I have to agree with that except for the 405hp engine part. My next boat will have the 409 HP engine option (standard engine is the PCM EX343 5.7L MPI PowerPlus V-Drive 343 hp)

The engine demand comes straight from my CFO (wife)

[LakeSurfer 10]

The best analogy I can think of is the car industry. My firm does a lot of work in the auto industry and I was talking to one of our auto experts about what is killing the U.S. auto makers. His answer was very interesting. He told me that the US auto makers fell so in love with the decked out SUV (because they were making a killing on them) they forgot to build a very good entry level 4 door car. The reason the entry level car is so important is that it allows you to build a life long relationship with a new customer. He used Toyota as an example: sell a high/quality Civic to a 1st time car buyer, in 4-6 years they come back and buy a Camry, another 4-6 years they buy a Camry or 1st Lexus and so on. Over that person's life you sell them 6-8 cars, all because they loved that entry level 4 door Civic. When the economy crashed, everybody went and bought more economical 4 door cars and the US automakers did not have one. But they did have a $60K SUV only a few people could afford.

 

None of the big boat brands have a 4 door Civic or even a Camry. They are all trying to make the blinged out GS 450

Edited September 26, 2010 by LakeSurfer

[Kevin Baugh 78]

So kinda like the 2011 Centurion Elite V C4 that my dealer would price out for the base boat tower ballast and trailer at 46K

[desotodave 0]

The best analogy I can think of is the car industry. My firm does a lot of work in the auto industry and I was talking to one of our auto experts about what is killing the U.S. auto makers. His answer was very interesting. He told me that the US auto makers fell so in love with the decked out SUV (because they were making a killing on them) they forgot to build a very good entry level 4 door car. The reason the entry level car is so important is that it allows you to build a life long relationship with a new customer. He used Toyota as an example: sell a high/quality Civic to a 1st time car buyer, in 4-6 years they come back and buy a Camry, another 4-6 years they buy a Camry or 1st Lexus and so on. Over that person's life you sell them 6-8 cars, all because they loved that entry level 4 door Civic. When the economy crashed, everybody went and bought more economical 4 door cars and the US automakers did not have one. But they did have a $60K SUV only a few people could afford.

 

None of the big boat brands have a 4 door Civic or even a Camry. They are all trying to make the blinged out GS 450

 

Ummmm Honda sells Civics. But I get your analogy.

 

When I bough my boat 2 years ago, I ordered from the factory, and I did not want the Bling Bling trailer for and extra $3,000, bling bling package, tower speakers etc. My main requirements were the hull and the upgraded engine, switchblade, sideswipe, etc. I wanted performance not show.

 

On the other hand my buddy is desperately into show, so he bought an X45 for twice the price as my Enzo. He bought it JUST for surfing after trying it on my boat. For 2 years now and he has been unable to ride without the rope. Funny enough his family came with me, and they all rode without the rope, he was glad that I helped him "figure it out". Then he went back to his X45, and lo and behold nobody can surf without the rope. With that boat you have to really Sack it out to get it to sink, and he is unwilling to use fat sacks, where all mine are just hidden in the compartments. Just goes to show that to some people the IMAGE is MUCH more important than functionality.

 

But, I do agree that most of the boat manufacturers have lost their way with a GOOD CHEAP Functional boat. The market is there!

Edited September 26, 2010 by desotodave

[desotodave 0]

So kinda like the 2011 Centurion Elite V C4 that my dealer would price out for the base boat tower ballast and trailer at 46K

Or about what I paid for my Enzo 2 years ago.

[LakeSurfer 10]

Ummmm Honda sells Civics. But I get your analogy.

 

 

Sorry, meant Corolla

Edited September 26, 2010 by LakeSurfer

[LakeSurfer 10]

So kinda like the 2011 Centurion Elite V C4 that my dealer would price out for the base boat tower ballast and trailer at 46K

 

Sure, but I was thinking +/- $35K. I am sure I am missing something on why construction cost of a boat are so expensive. Does anybody have a general break down of cost of a boat between the big categories (hull, engine, gel coat, tower, vinyl seats, swim deck, dash/electronics, etc)? The one I really have no idea on how much it cost is the hull.

[Trojan man 0]

So kinda like the 2011 Centurion Elite V C4 that my dealer would price out for the base boat tower ballast and trailer at 46K

 

 

46K For an entry level boat. There is part of your problem.

 

No wonder I see so many Tahoes at my lake.

[Big Po 1]

I agree that prices are very high but the 80k+ msrp prices that people keep posting are not in reallity what the boats will sell for. My dealer would start the conversation on a basic 230+ for under 70k

Not true Kev.....My dealer sells for what is on the price tag (MSRP), and might drop $5K tops, and that's only if you have cash in hand, or a check. They are selling 2010 Enzo 240's 85% loaded for $120K.....Don't believe me - http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2010-FIN...SV240V-96575092

 

One of the main reasons that I talked them down $6k on my boat, was the fact that they didn't really want to sit on it over the winter, and that I told the salesman what I'd pay for it, and played the hardazz and stood my ground on the price. I told him that if he sold it to me for what I wanted to pay, that I would buy it, and when I wanted another boat down the road I would check with him first.

[Big Po 1]

But my real point is that even $70K is a lot of money for 99% of the people.

Yes it is. Some people don't make realistic money...They make rediculous amounts of money compared to normal contributing members of society. Realistic money is probably 1.5-2 times what I make. 95% of the people you will see in a new Centurion is in debt up to their eyeballs. I'm not in too deep, but I'm straddling the fence or realistic and probably shouldn't have done that. LOL However, I'm a hard-headed cuss, and I always manage to pull through, even if I break my back trying.

[Big Po 1]

46K For an entry level boat. There is part of your problem.

 

No wonder I see so many Tahoes at my lake.

Yep....Entry level should be starting around $30K-$35K range.

[Kevin Baugh 78]

Why not 25K

[Big Po 1]

Why not 25K

True....And believe me....I would LOVE to see a 21' Centurion for $25,000! But I was referring to a fairly well-equipped Elite-V with ballast, PP, tower, decent stereo with tower speakers (1 set), nice graphics.

 

Where would the basic Enzo line start out at.........$45K?

 

 

It sounds rediculously low (compared to today's prices), but what happened to Centurion???? I thought they were the industry's best kept dirty little secret.....You know, awesome quality boats for an affordable price so that everyone could enjoy boating. I understand price has risen for materials......But NOT $30,000 in the last few years, that's called being greedy.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Big Po