Winter ballast pump project

[Pontoondog 1]

This winter we will be doing an upgrade to some integrated bags and I was wondering if any of you have any experience with the Johnson rapid rogue ballast pump?  It’s a 30 gpm pump @ 30 amps !  And reversible...  this seems like a dream pump but at 30 amps could this start other problems?  (Electrical)....It also is only offered with 1.5” in and out ports which is larger than any of the standard fittings offered from many of the ballast supply folks so it creates a few challenges fitting up with the bags.. which have 1” ports...    just throwing it out there for thought and conversation 

 

[Wylie_Tunes 146]

Electrical will not be an issue with a dual battery setup and a proper foundation to support the pumps. In short, I do not think you would want to connect 3 new pumps to the boat's existing fuse box. 

You will need to source a 1.5 to 1" or 1-1/8". Given this capacity, id consider a Y fitting and supply 2 sac fittings rather then just step the hose size down for one fitting. 

[jtryon 24]

if you're stepping up the speed i'd suggest upgrading everything else along with it so you get the true speed increase out of those pumps.  run the proper gauge wire to the pumps to handle the increased power demand, and upgrade the hose and thru-hulls along with it.  you can get 1.5" hose here for cheap: https://www.fisheriessupply.com/trident-marine-series-147-extra-heavy-duty-bilge-and-livewell-hose

nice find!

[Pontoondog 1]

Hey guys 

thanks for the response... 

I should elaborate a little more on what my thoughts were....if I were to do this upgrade I would run two pumps one For each 1000 lb bag... both would be the large 30 gpm pumps @30 amps .

My set up Starting at the battery with 10 gage anchor Marine wire to a 50 amp blue seas breaker... then to a 50 amp reversing relay and then to the pump all with 10 gage wire... the switch would be run with whatever say16 gage wire... not really relevant cause it’s just a switch to activate the relay... in my mind this should be good but after talking to a distributor of ballast equipment and a large manufacturer supplier of ballast equipment both say not to go this rout,:::  main reason is alternator compatibility.. now I’m not sure what I have in my 2004 elite v I’m assuming it’s probably a 55 or 65 amp alternator not sure I don’t have the original docs and I don’t know if it’s been altered.. and it’s now all covered up for the winter..” aagg .. so with this being said i dont understand why the alternator would be an issue... we are running 3 group 27 batts  for starting ballast and stereo.. all thru switches and isolators...  they were saying that with all pumps running at the same time that the alternator could burn up.. overload ?   Battery Amp “hour” is how I thought this was rated and with that it’s not much.. running pumps for only say 6 minutes... shouldn’t be a problem.   Am I wrong ?

thanks for the open conversation and help 

[Pontoondog 1]

Also. Was going to go with 2  1.5” thru Hull’s and valve’s  to a 2” manifold/valve system back to 1.5” hose to the bags to be able to switch from one side to the other if one pump were to go down...   make sense?   So basically it would flow straight thru but if need be i could transfer from one side or the other... 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Pontoondog

[Wylie_Tunes 146]

8 hours ago, Pontoondog said:

Also. Was going to go with 2  1.5” thru Hull’s and valve’s  to a 2” manifold/valve system back to 1.5” hose to the bags to be able to switch from one side to the other if one pump were to go down...   make sense?   So basically it would flow straight thru but if need be i could transfer from one side or the other... 

KISS. This ^^^ over complicates it. Ballast pump failures or very rare. Id upgrade my bilge pump. Then if a pump did fail and the sac was full, just pop a fill hose off and let the sac drain to the bilge. Or keep an over the side pump kit so you could fill/drain a sac if a pump went out, until you get it repaired. 

If I understand your previous post correctly, you have 3 battery banks? Engine, audio and ballast? If so, id rethink. id prefer a larger "house" bank of two group-27, rather then two banks of a group-27 each. Again, less complicated. 

I do not see the alternator being a liability, as long as you have a sufficient charger once the boat is back home, to recharge the house bank. 

So was it the pumps they said not to go with, or your wiring configuration? 

[Pontoondog 1]

Wylie thanks for the help and insight on “kiss” haaa.  That is  so true!  They were ok with the pump wiring and relays s The main concern seemed to be running both pumps at the same time and having a large amp draw on the batteries/alternator? Thus damaging the alternator.   Maybe the were concerned about the boats existing wiring ?   But with my limited knowledge of batts and electricity I don’t see how this can be problematic as long as everything is up to snuff.   Like you said keep em charged up at home.. I like the idea of the two house batteries more amp hours... ?      

[Wylie_Tunes 146]

The boats existing wiring is (should be anyway) ample for the original 55A alternator and starter. So adding more loads to the battery, will not change that. As noted earlier, you would not be connecting these pumps to any existing boat wiring, so its a moot point. 

In reality, those pumps are going to draw about 20A-25A each, once flowing. The 30A should be their peak draw, which is typically only seen at startup. this is the better value to use to build the electrical off of. So thats 50A with both pumps running. A 1000# sac is 120 gal, So @ 30 gpm, you are looking at 4 minutes. Run both at same time, theres your 50A to fill two 1K sacs. 

With two group-27 batteries together, thats about 200 Ah. 50A for 4 minutes is a walk in the park for that battery bank. The alternator will recover them after a few surf sets and will not burn up.  

[Pontoondog 1]

Hi guys sorry for taking so long to get to this project...but it took a pandemic to slow me down and give me time to work on the boat... I took Wylie tunes advice and kept it simple... in a nut shell. Moved four batteries from back storage areas to up front installed two thru hulls and pumps for new bags installed new acr and batt switch and a new swivel and slide seat mount..I’ll do a small right up with some pics ( hopefully) if I can figure it out.. in the next few days