BoardCo

@Moczygemba9395 the base MSRP has no options equipped on it at all. We haven't really run into this problem on boats as almost all banks / credit unions use MSRP sheets on new boats and don't source NADA. The NADA MSRP is correct, but when you put options on the boats it can increase the MSRP value by $50k. Nautique is the same way, they just have more features that they include in the base price (board racks as an example) instead of having them as "options". There are plusses and minuses to each way of doing it, but I don't see them making any changes with how they do it.

@InfinitySurf is correct on that one. For years Centurion did things differently (essentially we sold boats at MSRP) and we had A LOT of problems. People thought that we were hosing them and it took a long time to explain why we weren't giving them a $30k discount and the other dealer was. As far as integrity goes, a dealer should acknowledge that MSRP is an over-inflated number and if they don't you shouldn't trust them, hence my statements here on this forum. For lending, it would put any boat company that actually sells boats at full MSRP at a true disadvantage as most banks are only willing to finance 90% of MSRP max not including tax, freight, prep, registration, etc. That means people would effectively need to put 30% down to even qualify and upwards of 40% to get the best rate. We aren't trying to pull a fast one on the banks by any means, but if I have a choice between having a program that favors the bank's equity position vs. getting our customers the best possible rate I will go with the best rates for our customers.

I don't disagree - MSRP pricing is ridiculous. It started with Malibu a number of years ago and unfortunately, everyone else is basically required to follow suit. For years we dealt with people coming into our dealership and saying something like "Malibu is giving us $35k off MSRP and you are only giving us $10k off???" which is why everyone basically runs on an inflated MSRP value now. That said, the reason MSRP exists at all is for valuation for financing for banks and establishing NADA values. Higher MSRP prices equate to higher NADA values (though this is a small influence) and allow for financing options that otherwise may not be available. A lot of banks will only lend against 80-90% of MSRP and having a higher MSRP vs. actual sale number allows someone to put less down if they want, especially when factoring in costs such as freight, prep, taxes, licensing, etc. that aren't factored toward value by the bank. The other reason MSRP is beneficial is the lower the actual amount financed to MSRP ratio, the better the rate is. If we were selling boats for actual MSRP, the interest rate on a new boat would be .25 to .5% higher than current rates and the buyer would be required to put anywhere from 20-25% down to get approved.

We are the dealer here in Utah and can give you a bit of context here. The price we have posted online is MSRP. It is a number that is determined by the Centurion factory and not by our dealership. This is the same for all Centurion dealerships nationwide. Per our dealer agreements, we are required to ONLY post MSRP online as the price on the boats and can't post the price we actually sell the boats for, which is why we also put "CALL FOR PRICE" on all listings. MSRP is an arbitrary number that is primarily used to value a boat for financing purposes, which is why it is inflated considerably compared to the price we actually sell the boats for. Every boat manufacturer has a similar MSRP markup and discount for actually selling the boat. Nautique actually inflates the MSRP more than Centurion does. As far as the prices go, in our market, a Ri237 / Ri257 sells for about $10k less than a G23 / G25, if they are optioned the same. The Nautique dealer here in Utah brings a lot of boats in stripped down to show lower prices where most of the boats we have at the boat show are fully loaded Ri boats with all the bells and whistles. Hope that helps clarify a few things for anyone that is looking at pricing.

Here is a link to the 301 Video:

We don't discuss CATS since about 75% of boats that are being built now aren't equipped with it. It's just my opinion (a well informed one, but an opinion nonetheless) that CATS is irrelevant on the boats with Opti-V when talking about surfing and people should run it at 0 most of the time. There are some things you can do to the surf wave, but it has such a minor impact if you are setting your boat up properly that most of the time people just end up getting confused on how / when they should use it. CATS is an awesome feature and helps immensely when wakeboarding or cruising, but not so much for surfing.

We put together a series of videos on how to best optimize the surf wave on your Centurion boat. The videos are broken down into Wakesurfing 101, 201 and 301. Here are some details on each video: Setting Up Your Wakesurf Wave 101 – This video is for when you are first getting started and goes through the basics of how to create a great surf wave that anyone will be able to jump on and enjoy. Setting Up Your Wakesurf Wave 201 – Once you have the basics down this video will help you take it to the next level. In the 201 video we show you how you can use all of the features on your Centurion boat to customize the surf wave based on the rider size, rider skill level, board they are riding on and more. If you are ready to take your wave from great to amazing this video will help you do that. Setting Up Your Wakesurf Wave 301 – In this video we go the extra step to show you how the professional riders and drivers set their boats up. This gets to a level of customization and intensity that is more than a lot of people want to get into but if you want to see how we set things up for pro riders, check this one out! We hope these videos will be helpful and that you can use them to get the most out of your boat. Happy Surfing!

If you want a wave that is as good or better than your Avy you aren't going to get it in a Mastercraft without extra lead unless you go with a X22 or X24 unfortunately. The NXT is ok for entry level, but it definitely has it's limitations and you will need extra lead to equal what you have in your Avy if it is set up properly. MB isn't a bad choice. There are a number of issues with the boats but they do throw out a decent surf wave if you set them up properly. We have taken 6 on trade this year and still have 2 2017's if you are interested.

Add more bow weight and increase the center plate. If you are looking for a big wake fill Ramfill and bow but not anything in the rear PNP bags. Adjust the center Stinger plate to a higher setting - just making sure the wake doesn't wash out.

Warranty and service vary from dealer to dealer, but generally most Centurion dealers are top notch from my experience. There are exceptions for sure, but generally speaking they do a superior job to what you get from your average Malibu dealership. As far as QC goes, nobody is on par with Toyota in the marine industry and honestly, they can't be. The technology and engineering that Toyota can afford, along with production capacity will draw out patterns for issues that can be addressed more easily. It's the benefit of building hundreds of thousands of vehicles vs. hundreds of boats. With that said, the QC that goes into Centurion, Supreme and Nautique is the best in the business. There is a reason a Centurion boat has a 8-10 day build time and a Malibu is 4-5. There are multiple steps in the process that Correct Craft does that are either minimalized by other manufacturers or omitted entirely. This accounts for a lot of issues that customers are seeing with boats that are being built by companies that are more accountable to their shareholders than their customers.

One of the best things I could recommend is to jump on the Official Centurion / Supreme Owner's group on Facebook. There are A LOT of former Malibu owners on the page and they can give you a direct comparison on what they have experienced when they switched brands.

We are the largest Centurion dealership in the world and haven't had a single customer of ours hydrolock a boat. I have heard it is possible to hydrolock one if you are just running stock ballast, but I imagine we would have seen it if that were the case. Every hydrolock issue I have heard of is from guys running additional weight AND having people sitting at the transom which sinks it even deeper in the water. If you aren't running additional lead you shouldn't have a problem, though I wouldn't let the boat sit for a couple hours fully ballasted. If you are running lead it's simple - just dump Ramfill or PNP at the rear before going swimming and you will be fine. Welcome to the only downside to a boat that can pack 5,000+ lbs of ballast.

If you are saying low speed for wakeboarding it is awesome - the wake will clean up with zero ballast as low as 17 mph on both sides. Lower speed than that you can easily clean up the wake on one side. If you are asking about lower speeds for skiing it is ok (better than your SL) but the ski wake does get better the faster you go. It is simple physics here - the faster you are going the higher the boat sits out of the water and the less water it displaces. Over the weekend we released a video comparing a Fi23 to a Nautique GS22 and you can get a much closer look at the ski wake, wakeboard wake and surf wave on the Fi23: http://www.mmwatersports.com/boat-performance/centurion-fi23-vs-nautique-gs22/ In this video, we DID NOT have a transom bag in the Fi23 so the surf wave and wakeboard wake can actually get better than what we show here - even without more people / lead.

The ski wake on the Fi23 should definitely be superior to the SL. I haven't skied behind the SL but Supra wakes are pretty brutal and if the SL is like any others I'm guessing it is pretty bad. Full disclosure the XT22 does probably produce a superior ski wake, but it will be a significant downgrade surfing compared to your SL, where the Fi23 will be an upgrade. If wakeboarding is a factor at all the XT22 will also be a downgrade from your SL where the Fi23 is probably almost a straight trade - both wakeboard great. Skiing is difficult to determine because it is entirely based on what you are used to skiing behind and how you ski (length, speed, aggresiveness, etc.) along with what ski you are on. As far as V-Drive boats go the Fi23 is pretty good overall and quite good if you are skiing recreationally. If you are skiing at tournament level it isn't great, but then again no V-Drive out there is.

Another vote for the Phase 5 Scamp. https://www.boardco.com/phase-5-scamp-wakesurf-board (shameless plug)