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There are a few things to hit on here that I may be able to help out with. As far as the price goes - you will need to talk to your local dealer as this can change based on how they equip the boats and there is a BIG range depending on how they are optioned out. Supra sells less boats overall than Centurion, just FYI. With Moomba they sell slightly more than Centurion / Supreme combined but Moomba is the majority of the numbers. If you are talking locally sold numbers Supra may sell more than Centurion depending on your area. Both the Supra SE and the Nautique G23 are nice boats and will have some advantages vs. a Ri245. The Ri245 is notably larger than a G23 (about the same size as a G25), so that is something to consider especially if you are comparing pricing. The one thing I can tell you on the boats is that the Ri245 throws A LOT better surf wave than either of these boats, or really any other boat out there period. The Ri245 and Ri265 are in a completely different class for surf wave than ANY other boat on the market, and that includes the Ri237/Ri257. This is not saying it has a better surf wave for pro riders - it has a better surf wave for ANY rider as long as they are able to drop the rope and carve around. If your primary concern is the bells and whistles in the boat the Supra or Nautique are definitely nice picks. If the performance of the boat (surf wave, drivability, etc.) are your top priorities it isn't a close comparison. Thus far I haven't taken anyone out on the Ri245 or 265 and had them be anything but floored by the wave. If you haven't been on it, you haven't ever experienced anything like it - you just need to decide what is important for you.

I'm happy to shed some light on this in a format that isn't pushing it out the the whole world like we did with our video comparing the two. I can tell you we made the GS22 look a lot better than it actually was when it came to surf wave and wakeboard wake. We also didn't review the handling of the boat, and I can tell you, it wasn't close. I knew the Fi23 would out-perform the GS22 (it is better than the G23), but I didn't expect it to be THAT MUCH better. I would STRONGLY recommend test driving both of them and MAKE SURE to actually drive both boats. If you do, you won't buy a GS22 unless you really really care about skiing. That said, you could get a Vi22 and be even closer in that regard.

If you are going that fast you will probably need a bit more weight to get it to clean up and/or engage the center plate. The SV233 has a great wakeboard wake with Ramfill and the bow PNP bag filled (sub with lead where you are using it).

What price are they selling it for? It's a great boat but if you are considering something in that range you could get a 2014 with Ramfill, CATS, etc. and not need to add GSA at all - not to mention Ramfill is like the greatest thing ever...

A surf system is noticeably better on Enzos, Avalanches or any other boat with a V-hull. The main reason for this is that it allows the water to be diverted the way the hull does it naturally and allows you to add A LOT more ballast into the boat because the surf system reduces drag where a shaper / suck gate will increase drag. A suck gate is great, but a GSA or Infinity Wave system works a lot better. The only downside of them is the cost.

There isn't much difference between the SV230 and SV240 except for space. The big difference when you are looking at any of the SV series is condition and what the boat is equipped with. You can get a stock one, but chances are you will be adding ballast upgrades and a surf system (especially if you surf goofy). This will vastly improve your wave but also will cost a minimum of $3-4k.

All things equal either Enzo would be great. If that is the budget you are looking in we have a 2007 SV230 that is INCREDIBLE. It would require shipping it, but that isn't nearly as big of a deal as many people think. We can let this guy go for close to 40k. Take a look and feel free to text/call with any questions at 801-491-3710. https://boardcoboats.com/listings/2007-centurion-enzo-sv230-fully-upgraded-super-clean/

If you find a 2014 SV233 under $60k that would be a great pick - still one of the best overall boats ever built in my opinion and finding them under $60k is really tough. Just make sure it has Ramfill.

What's it like to ski behind a Centurion Ri257? Let's find out...

Want to know what boat has the best wakesurf wave in the world? We tackled this topic in this video and our most recent blog post. What makes a wakesurf wave "best?" Does best mean biggest? Does it mean longest? Is "best" an ideal shape? Check it out and let us know what else you think we should cover. Check out this video and our blog post below to get in the know. See out our blog post on this topic here: http://www.mmwatersports.com/uncategorized/what-boat-has-the-best-wakesurf-wave-in-the-world/ View the full lineup of Centurion and Supreme boats at BoardCo here: http://www.mmwatersports.com/ Take a look at our new and used inventory: http://www.mmwatersports.com/boat-inventory/ Enjoy!

If it comes down to the wake alone the Ri237 will definitely out perform the SL. Supra makes a great boat and the wave is solid, but it needs about 1000 lbs. of lead to compete with a stock Ri237. You can add that in and get the same wave, but at the same time you could add that weight to the Ri and get an even better wave. The interior trim on the Supra is top notch and there are some really nice things on that boat. If I personally didn't run Centurion's Supra or Nautique would be my next pick but giving up the surf performance and ride of the Opti-V hull would be too much for me to swallow to look at getting a different brand.

Yes, the dealer was that far off on setup... The Ri257 is bar none the best surf boat ever built which has been verified time after time after time but the Ri237 isn't that far off and I would put it at basically a tie between the Ri237 and Fi25 as the 2nd best surf boat ever. I have NEVER had someone climb off a Ri237 and not be blown away by the performance on it. To give you some idea this video was behind a Ri237:

The center cooler walkover on the Ri series never bugged me at all, though I know some people don't like it. The thing is if you have the bow cushion in the boat (which I do 99.9% of the time) it just means you step up about 1 foot earlier than if you don't have the cooler. It's funny because it is one of the primary things I like better on the Ri. The LSX engine is the exact same as the Chevrolet LSX Engine. It is not direct injected (at least to my knowledge) but is natually aspirated. It has 7.4L of displacement but is in a small block profile. As far as what you need - the H6 in either the Fi25 or Ri257 will have similar power to a G23 with a 550. The Nautique dealer here sells all G boats with a 550 motor and our Ri257 with a H6 performs just as well as theirs do. The tow point on a Ri257 is somewhat higher up than most boats, but the rope will be in the water a bit when pulling a tube. You can get a float for the rope that will help a lot. When pulling little kids we put it on the tower but if you are pulling adults definitely DO NOT pull from the tower. That said, normally adults are at higher speed and they can be pulled from the lower tow point without a problem. There is no way to do clamp racks on the Dropzone tower that I am aware of, but I can tell you straight up that you want the Bombshell racks. I ran clamp racks for a couple years and after having Bombshell racks for about 5 minutes I decided I never wanted clamping ones again. They are more reliable, hold boards better, fit more boards, etc. Plus the biggest benefit is they integrate in with the Sewlong XXL bimini which is probably the most important option you could put on these boats other than Ramfill. The Fi25 has a slightly worse ski wake than the Fi23 but it is pretty close. To give you an idea of what you are looking at here is a link to a video we shot of the ski wake on a Ri257:

Thank you. Everything you have heard is true... The Carbon Pro is slalom skiing ninja magic. It is awful at EVERYTHING but skiing, but this thing turns and burns buoys better than any boat ever built.

A few things here: The Fi25 and Ri257 ride almost identically in rough water - you will be VERY happy with either one. The Ri257 has a tow point above the swim platform that is ideal for tubes. You can ski from this point but from my experience, the tower is a better spot. As far as this goes, it is one of the common misconceptions I run into when talking to people about skiing. People consider it near blasphemy to talk about water skiing from the tower, but for 90% of people who ski it is actually a better tow point than a pylon. It allows recreational skiers to get up easier and reduces overall drag once they are up. The benefit of having a lower tow point really only matters if you are pulling HARD through the wake and honestly if you are pulling hard enough to justify going to a pylon you aren't going to want to ski behind a Fi25 / Ri257 anyway. To give you some background I am a tournament skier, I own a Carbon Pro boat (along with a Ri257) and spend time in a buoy course regularly. When I ski behind a Fi25 or Ri257 I am barely impacted by skiing from the tower. This point causes me some frustration because for most people skiing from the tower is not just ok, but it is actually BETTER than skiing from a pylon, but when I suggest it I get weird looks like I don't know what I'm doing haha. Jack (one of our guys here) gets the same reactions and he can run into 34 off in a course (which if you aren't familiar is REALLY good). The Ri257 ski wake isn't quite as good as the Fi25, but they are close. Out of the box the Ri257 puts out a slightly better surf wave while the Fi25 has a slightly better ski wake. They have the same running surface and the only reason for the difference is the Ri257 is slightly heavier. That said, most people wouldn't be able to tell a difference between them as far as ski wake goes. As far as stereo control goes, you can have an automatic volume adjustment installed but you can save a lot of cost and actually get better functionality by installing an app on your phone called Volumatic. It is AWESOME and a lot better than the volume controls that are set to RPM in my opinion, plus it only sets you back about $10. The Supra SE550 has some great features and is a really nice boat. There are some nice features on Supra but for me there are at least 2 BIG things you will miss out on vs. a Centurion. The most important factor that can't be overcome with modifications is the rough water ride. If you are using the boat on Tahoe the water can get ugly fast and having a boat that won't beat you up or scare you going through 5-foot waves is a must in my book. The next one is the surf wave on the Centurion is a lot better out of the box. You can get the Supra to throw out a great wave, but if you do much research you will find that pretty much everyone is running 1,000 lbs. of lead to get it to surf on the level of a stock Fi25/Ri257. If you cruise around a lot that is a problem since you can't get rid of it. The other downside that is just speculation from me is that the ski wake on the Supra wouldn't be as good. Supra boats have a very stiff wakeboard wake and from my experience, that translates to a stiff ski wake. I haven't skied behind one, but I have heard the ski wake is actually worse than a Centurion just because of the wake shape. The best thing to do if you are looking at one is taking them both for a drive, the difference will become clear very quickly. Lastly, the H6 engine will work fine for you but you probably wouldn't be disappointed with the 550 (for 2020 it will be the new LSX engine). If you cruise around a bit the added power and reduced RPM on at cruising speed is really nice. As far as reliability goes, its a bit early to tell on the LSX but thus far they have had no problems at all and should be more reliable than the XR7 (550 Supercharger) was. The main benefit is similar power but the engine is naturally aspirated so longevity and reliability should be better. It's a new engine for the boat world but it has been bulletproof in cars for a while so we anticipate really good things. If there is anything we can do to help you out on the boat decision process at all let me know. Thanks!

We put together a series of videos on how to best optimize the surf wave on your Centurion boat. The videos are broken down into Wakesurfing 101, 201 and 301. Here are some details on each video: Setting Up Your Wakesurf Wave 101 – This video is for when you are first getting started and goes through the basics of how to create a great surf wave that anyone will be able to jump on and enjoy. Setting Up Your Wakesurf Wave 201 – Once you have the basics down this video will help you take it to the next level. In the 201 video we show you how you can use all of the features on your Centurion boat to customize the surf wave based on the rider size, rider skill level, board they are riding on and more. If you are ready to take your wave from great to amazing this video will help you do that. Setting Up Your Wakesurf Wave 301 – In this video we go the extra step to show you how the professional riders and drivers set their boats up. This gets to a level of customization and intensity that is more than a lot of people want to get into but if you want to see how we set things up for pro riders, check this one out! We hope these videos will be helpful and that you can use them to get the most out of your boat. Happy Surfing!

What size Hyperlite Broadcast? Board size will make a big impact on a wave that size. You may want to look at a longboard style setup that can handle the smaller wave better. Also, more weight - seriously as much as the boat can handle is your best bet and you will PROBABLY want it ALL at the rear of the boat. With the center mount engine the weight is already moved forward enough that you probably won't need any bow weight or weight in front of the engine other than people.

As much weight as the boat can handle and a wakesurf shaper. That's pretty much it with a T5 - you are working to take boat that is designed to produce a small wake and get a big wake out of it. It's hard and takes a lot of extra work.

There are a few that are pretty decent. The Falcon V and Enzo 216/220 were good. If you are looking under 30k the best one that should be in that range, which is also the best skiing Centurion V-Drive ever made is the 2003 and older Eclipse V / Cyclone Air Warrior (same boat just different package). I would say it is the best skiing V-drive ever built with the exception of the newer Malibu VTX (maybe) or the newer Sport Nautique 200. We actually have one for sale that is in pretty killer shape. Here is a link to it: http://www.mmwatersports.com/listings/2001-centurion-eclipse-v-drive/

@Moczygemba9395 the base MSRP has no options equipped on it at all. We haven't really run into this problem on boats as almost all banks / credit unions use MSRP sheets on new boats and don't source NADA. The NADA MSRP is correct, but when you put options on the boats it can increase the MSRP value by $50k. Nautique is the same way, they just have more features that they include in the base price (board racks as an example) instead of having them as "options". There are plusses and minuses to each way of doing it, but I don't see them making any changes with how they do it.

@InfinitySurf is correct on that one. For years Centurion did things differently (essentially we sold boats at MSRP) and we had A LOT of problems. People thought that we were hosing them and it took a long time to explain why we weren't giving them a $30k discount and the other dealer was. As far as integrity goes, a dealer should acknowledge that MSRP is an over-inflated number and if they don't you shouldn't trust them, hence my statements here on this forum. For lending, it would put any boat company that actually sells boats at full MSRP at a true disadvantage as most banks are only willing to finance 90% of MSRP max not including tax, freight, prep, registration, etc. That means people would effectively need to put 30% down to even qualify and upwards of 40% to get the best rate. We aren't trying to pull a fast one on the banks by any means, but if I have a choice between having a program that favors the bank's equity position vs. getting our customers the best possible rate I will go with the best rates for our customers.

I don't disagree - MSRP pricing is ridiculous. It started with Malibu a number of years ago and unfortunately, everyone else is basically required to follow suit. For years we dealt with people coming into our dealership and saying something like "Malibu is giving us $35k off MSRP and you are only giving us $10k off???" which is why everyone basically runs on an inflated MSRP value now. That said, the reason MSRP exists at all is for valuation for financing for banks and establishing NADA values. Higher MSRP prices equate to higher NADA values (though this is a small influence) and allow for financing options that otherwise may not be available. A lot of banks will only lend against 80-90% of MSRP and having a higher MSRP vs. actual sale number allows someone to put less down if they want, especially when factoring in costs such as freight, prep, taxes, licensing, etc. that aren't factored toward value by the bank. The other reason MSRP is beneficial is the lower the actual amount financed to MSRP ratio, the better the rate is. If we were selling boats for actual MSRP, the interest rate on a new boat would be .25 to .5% higher than current rates and the buyer would be required to put anywhere from 20-25% down to get approved.

We are the dealer here in Utah and can give you a bit of context here. The price we have posted online is MSRP. It is a number that is determined by the Centurion factory and not by our dealership. This is the same for all Centurion dealerships nationwide. Per our dealer agreements, we are required to ONLY post MSRP online as the price on the boats and can't post the price we actually sell the boats for, which is why we also put "CALL FOR PRICE" on all listings. MSRP is an arbitrary number that is primarily used to value a boat for financing purposes, which is why it is inflated considerably compared to the price we actually sell the boats for. Every boat manufacturer has a similar MSRP markup and discount for actually selling the boat. Nautique actually inflates the MSRP more than Centurion does. As far as the prices go, in our market, a Ri237 / Ri257 sells for about $10k less than a G23 / G25, if they are optioned the same. The Nautique dealer here in Utah brings a lot of boats in stripped down to show lower prices where most of the boats we have at the boat show are fully loaded Ri boats with all the bells and whistles. Hope that helps clarify a few things for anyone that is looking at pricing.

Here is a link to the 301 Video:

We don't discuss CATS since about 75% of boats that are being built now aren't equipped with it. It's just my opinion (a well informed one, but an opinion nonetheless) that CATS is irrelevant on the boats with Opti-V when talking about surfing and people should run it at 0 most of the time. There are some things you can do to the surf wave, but it has such a minor impact if you are setting your boat up properly that most of the time people just end up getting confused on how / when they should use it. CATS is an awesome feature and helps immensely when wakeboarding or cruising, but not so much for surfing.