ragboy(fatboy)

I am just going to add one thing. This event, and my motivation, has never been to prove which wake is better or best of all. Its just a place where we get together a bunch of people from all over the community, and loyal to many different brands and with their own biases, but willing to get on a different board and behind a different boat and give it a whirl and report what they think. The reviews are posted online so that others can see what they said. This event has always been my way to "put your money where your mouth is" so to speak. I put out a lot of videos, and all of the other manufacturers to one degree or another do the same thing promoting their boats and wakes in the best light. Here is a chance to see and touch and ride in the wild, make your own opinion. You can come and ride our Z3 for instance and report back that I am full of sh*t, or the wake is great, or somewhere in between. This event holds my feet to the fire because when I show videos of the wake, and same on both sides, I know come October, I have to prove it. I agree the Centurion 244 didn't quite get a fair shake, it should have been weighted better, but that was out of my hands and I did the best I could to put it in the best light either way. Several people on this forum were in the boat with me during the event and told me of the Enzo wake and you can ask them if I talked smack, I didn't. Where does the blame lie? Nowhere, I think. Centurion wanted to bring a boat from worlds to the event, and for whatever reason could not. I wanted them to bring the FX-22 from worlds, but it was not available. Fulfilling customer orders is always going to be a priority for the manufacturers and I understand that. I spoke directly with Centurion and CMS right before the event and the decision was made to use a boat out of CMS stock at the last minute and the rest is history, read Mitch's post for the rest. Hindsight being 20/20 maybe next year Centurion will have someone, maybe one of you, on hand to make sure the boat is weighted better. I don't think slamming it or throwing a switchblade on it would be best, since that is not what most in this crowd would do, I always recommend something between stock and slammed. Either way, that will be their decision and we would post the setup in detail along with pics and video. You guys are both welcome to come up to Lake Oroville and surf with us anytime as long as it can be civil. If you want to whip em out and compare, ok, or we can all just surf each other's boats and have some fun. I would video tape it and put it out just like I did when the Mendonesia crew came out with there 240. If you wanna ride with us up here, though, you will need to also weight the boat goofy. For whatever reason, not just my family, lots of goofy riders up here.

Huh, how did I miss all of the fun in this thread? I just got told of its existence about an hour ago, it took me a while to read all the way through. There is a lot of conjecture and guessing in the thread that maybe I can help with. Mitch did a lot to take care of that, his post is exactly accurate. You can't blame Grant from CMS for trying to make sure that boat wasn't damaged or had any extra wear and tear due to lead or whatever. And also, he wanted to use a setup that he knew worked, he didn't have time to dial it in, but that wasn't his fault. For the record, I speak to every manufacturer personally and tell them to make sure they weight the boats to satisfy the polar bear crowd. This crowd is full of wake snobs and they know a good wakesurf wake. I tell them all to watch the wake9 videos of the Z3 and know that is what you will be up against, because we will have our boat weighted in that "weekend warrior" fashion. Which I define as more than stock but reasonable that most in the wake snob crowd would be comfortable running every day. I recommend that only hidden water is used for ballast, but that it is not mandatory. I also inform them that all setups will be divulged, and that chase boat pictures will be used to show the attitude of the boat while wakesurfing and any sacs visible. I also followed up these conversations with an email to each of them, here is the text of that email I sent out in advance of the event: About Weighting You should setup the boats the way we would call "weekend warrior" surf setup. That is usually more than stock ballast, but not crazy. The setups you use will be requested and posted with the video and such. You should try to use most or all water since you will be switching from regular to goofy a couple of times. Each boat will have about 5 riders plus a photographer at all times, so your weight should all be hidden, since most riders want to see that a good working setup is going to be mostly water and completely hidden, that is what riders/boat prospects will expect for a boat they want to purchase. If you have any questions on this, please let me know. I should also mention, that I offer to the manufacturers to feel free to bring the boat up a day early, or another scheduled time ahead of time if you need us to help you dial it, or give our opinion. Pavati was going to do that but they couldn't get down in time. Moomba was also going to do that. Centurion and Supreme are 2 manufacturers that don't think they need our help with that, and that's fine with me. Regarding the Sanger: They did use lead, but the reason I didn't specify in the setup that they used lead was because they just finished the boat from the factory and its first time even running was 30 minutes before the event on Lake Oroville. They didn't have time to finish the ballast system. Sanger has a new Surf ballast system that I think runs about 1500 lbs. He used the lead to mimic the surf ballast the best he could. The boat did look slammed, but it only had 1500 lbs of weight plus the people. That boat just runs that way under that weight. But that is what is so great about this event, you get to see that and see if this boat works for you. You have to understand why I wouldn't want to be responsible for weighting. We dial in our boat after using for a while, and so should every manufacturer, or they should consult someone who does. But I don't know the best setup for all of these boats. Also, people would think I was purposely causing an advantage if I weighted a boat wrong. As far as the Z3 goes, yes it is dialed, but there is more to that. Tige has allowed us to consult with them on the boat with regards to surf, as we did with the RZ2 before and are continuing to do. We provide them with private videos of tests that we do and how we are weighting, things we notice, things that could be better, etc. The Convex VX (formerly BGB) was made based on much of this feedback. The Convex VX really dials the boat in, we just fill up the bags. So even though our boat is dialed, that information goes back to the factory so that someone can buy a boat that will give them the same wake they see from us. IMHO, other manufacturers should be getting that same type of feedback from their riders and doing the R&D if they are not already. Yes, I was sitting in the corner, and that makes any boat better, right? None of that is hidden. The chase video and pictures show who is in the boat. Also, the side seat storage in the Z3 is empty, we don't have our custom sacs go all the way up the sides like we did in the RZ2 or other boats do. Since the Z3 has so little list, we weight the entire back and that extra weight isn't needed. So when I am out of the boat, we keep 2 manual sacs in that side storage that RJ or whomever can fill up if they fill they could use that extra weight. We have used this on occasion like when RJ is out with a couple people only and I am not there. Still nothing on the seats. I love being in the boat and meeting every group, and this probably won't ever change except that I am slowly losing weight so it will be less of an issue every year. ;-) The reviews and comments that people post, I don't even edit for grammar. NOTHING was altered. The videos are built the same, I use the best footage from all that is taken and I make no attempt to make one boat look better than the others. A good example of that is with the Enzo. Someone above said it looked fine when they saw a 250 guy come from behind. That is because I searched out that video and used it. There were lots of people falling out on that boat, reflecting what the reviews said. I knew that this is normally not the case, so I made it look as good as I could. I even made sure I did the split screen showing the wake on both sides looking very good. Lastly, I have NO desire to make this event or any other unfair. Also, how could I get away with it? You guys all watch me like a hawk. H20king is pretty cool with me now, but that wasn't always the case, same with a few others of you. The thing is, when you come to our events or spend the day wakesurfing with us you will find like many have, I don't care one fart what boat you love or think is the best. I just love to wakesurf with my family and friends and I want to see more people do the same. But don't hate on me because I love my Tige, because I do. And don't be mad because they listen to us and accept great feedback and keep making better boats. Pressure your manufacturer of choice to do the same. I think I answered most of the questions/issues. If you have any more, feel free to ask me.

That's ok. I can tell you that we never thought about making an enzo wake, but wanted to be able to make a shallower wake that would please more of the skim board riders that like that as well as more of the tige wake that many of us know and love. With TAPS around 3-4 up to 6-7 it is that same Tige shape many of us love, and then around 1-3 it is more mellow and the top rolls over. So the goal was to make a super adjustable wake that you can set with TAPS without reweighting.

2 things, the flap, even the large horse mat we used, did not clean up as well as this, and the horse matt did nothing for making the wake longer, making a smaller curl, and making a smoother transition. Also, this device makes the boat easier to weight, since it is more forgiving when you put to much weight in the rear.

They did a lot of testing to make sure it didn't engage at WB speeds, and I tested and the wake looked the same, only the rooster was smaller, which makes sense. I plan on taking Raquel Hoffman out because I have pictures of her from before.

There is no disagreement, it is a trim tab. First, I use the word TAPS because my first inboard was a tige and that is what my gauge says and it has always been natural to me. TAPS is definitely a marketing term, but it isn't referring to the tab, it is referring to the tech of the tab and the convex hull together. I guess similar to the NCRS or whatever the term is used by Nautique, or maybe even "Hammerhead Bow". I am just using the term that I was introduced several years ago and makes sense to me.

It is stationary. The first "surf tabs" that I saw was on the Sanger 237 in 2008 that was used for a surf comp in SoCal. They really didn't do much for shaping the wake, or cleaning it up. The taps/wake plate seem to be one of the things that causes wash or spray. This device both completely catches and channels the wash to keep off of the face of the wake, but also shapes the wake off the back of the hull. This picture really helps show that: Those "wings" for lack of a better word help shape and smooth out the wake and the transition. Its interesting that it seems to give you the benefit of a longer hull, without the negative. What I mean is that a longer hull also creates added buoyancy and requires much more weight to create the wake. I was worried that this device would make the boat require more weight to make the same wake as before, but it doesn't. It just made the wake longer and smoother and less curl and super clean.

If you look at this picture, you will see that it is slightly higher than the hull by design. This allows it to NOT engage when on plane.

The trim tab/wake plate/TAPS plate is under that device and is the same as it was without the device. The reason its called TAPS is because of the interaction with the Convex V hull, giving it a wider range of adjustment. Here is a screen grab from a frame of the video: This is not regular and goofy, both goofy, check RJ's vest. The video on the right was flipped. This video was taken from a single camera and a single session, RJ did not even fall between these taps positions. We went through every position without stopping the camera, falling, or moving anything or any weight in the boat. The only thing that changed from these moments in time is the TAPS position.

Its the other way around. TAPS 1 is all the way down, TAPS 8 is all the way up.

Howdy, be happy to answer any questions.

Yes, that is me and your welcome, glad you enjoy.

Someone had told me before that thick weeds can effect a wake like a shallow bottom but I had never seen it. At our lake, depth is NEVER an issue. The weeds here were thick and abundant and in your feet when floating in the water. Wakeboarders got up and had to stop several times due to weeds all over the rope or their boots. In the end they added weight to give back good push but the wake never got as big as it should with that kind of weight. Another thing to add to the list for the advanced people to check. ;-)

Hey guys, thanks for watching. It was a Z3, actually the same wake9 Z3. It was more like 15 feet deep but that wasn't the issue. The issue was that there were super thick weeds only 2-3 feet down and as many of you know they cause issues. No matter how much extra weight you add the wake doesn't get bigger but it did help us gain back some push, without the extra weight it felt a bit sluggish and mushy. Every couple of falls the driver had to "clear the baffles" to remove weeds from the prop. It was a great time and the riders did a great job adapting to the conditions, it got VERY windy the second day which is why they changed the course for the wake skate and board runs after. Next year we will not only make sure we have at least 15 feet but ALSO that it is weed free. ;-)

That has been done, a few times. The Polar Bear event, for instance. There have been several other times where I spent the day with another boat, enzo, surfing like we did with the Supreme V226 recently. As a matter of fact, a brand new 2012 240 is coming up to surf with us this monday. The wrapped mendonesia boat from Lake Mendocino, at least that is the plan. Edit: Oh, and the events we are involved in. Towing an event and knowing the gas used, and then being involved with similar events with different boats. All of the above is a bit more than anecdotal. I do normally put on 200 hours per season, and this year, maybe 300 hours. I got the boat in late april and am at about 120 hours now and will be going strong through October. That said, you know how to reach me if you have a question, I will leave you to it. I understand this is your domain, I am good.

So someone emailed me a link to this thread. I would be happy to answer about how we use our boat, etc, but at the same time want to be respectful as a tige owner. So if you have a question, let me know, be happy to answer. I have had 3 tiges, 3 motors. 340MP in 24Ve weighted 2500lbs ballast plus people, PCM343 in 2010 RZ2 weighted about ~2100lbs plus people, and now the Z3 which is weighted every time we surf with 2600lbs plus people. I am huge and have a big family, and we always host lots of folks, so on average have 1000-1500lbs of people on board every time. 24Ve had Acme 1235, RZ2 had acme 537, and Z3 1235 but is not the best prop for it, best for 343.

You guys are pretty funny. Looks like a good looking wake. Don't worry, I don't lurk, was just curious about the new boats. I was at CMS on Saturday and Brett gave us a great tour of the 233 and a 240+. Interiors have really been stepped up, and that 233 had a cockpit with as much room as the 240+. It was ginourmous. We were also taking measurements for mounting cameras and antennas on the boats, and they had the red Right Surf (240+) boat in the showroom that is going to the NW Open. Anyway, we took lots of video and will be posting at your favorite wakesurfing related website ( ) in about a week. Always love tooling around in a new boat. Oh, and we shot the whole thing in 1080p, and will upload to YT in 1080P, so hopefully it will look good. Looking forward to the Right Surf boat at the NW Open, I think the last time I saw my kids surf behind a Right Surf Enzo was at the 2007 Worlds. The wake was amazing. I am sure RJ will enjoy it, along with Maddie and Thomas. Anyway, don't worry, still love our Tige's, but always appreciate a good looking wake. fatboy. Oh, one more thing, get out to CMS and check out those boats if you are in the CMS area. Not sure how long they will be there, so call first.

I wasn't ignoring this today, for the record, I was out all day at the lake first spending time with the Wakeshredder crew, and then spent all afternoon teaching a bunch of college kids who knew nothing of the sport how to wakesurf. 3 are now freeriding, 4 others very close. Then took all 12 of them downtown and stuffed them with Pizza. Just got home. Thats what is important to me, and thats what drives me. Your apologies are accepted and welcome, but I honestly never took it to heart. Its not my way. This morning, I had a good chat via email with JKW (lakesurfer). The thing is, we were a butthair from agreeing together and coming to a consensus on the "surf boat question" thread on WW, and then it got pounced and it got out of hand. Well, we finished our discussion, and came to this: He was ok that I had my own list of favorite wakesurf boats that met my own personal criteria, like great wake with same weight on both sides, etc, etc. He felt as long as I told new people they should still test drive other boats that may not make my list, like the Enzo, and the Sanger V215, etc. He was willing to concede that the enzo does take extra work/weight on the opposite side, and not as good as the other. That works fine for me, I told him that I would only add that a prospective buyer should make sure they test drive BOTH sides of the wake, so they can make an informed decision. BINGO. So I will from now on, make sure I add to my recommendation these other boats, like the enzos. Because many people, like you on this forum, love them. And so you should, its a nice boat. And feel free to shout how much you love your boat over all others, why shouldn't you? You worked hard to pay for it. Just don't bust a nut when I do the same thing. We will never agree on what is the best wake, but why should we, its about choice and preference. And your wake may be bigger and better on any given day, but I am going for an automated wake that I can switch back and forth at will and is safe in most conditions. Do you know my boat switched sides about 4 times today? That is how it is for me, and I would love to help push the industry to make boats in the future that make even better wakes, with even less effort, and the same on both sides. Its possible, and my opinion is we should demand it. But thats is just MY OPINION. Feel free to have yours. Look at Duffy's boat, he has a mean wake on both sides. Anyway, there are no hard feelings, there never has been, because I don't let stuff like this bother me. I never thought of suing, or going on some campaign, its just not my way. Ask Mike Armstrong from Calibrated Wakesurfing. ;-) Alright, its late. Keep surfing, and love every minute of it on your boat that you love, as will I. I hope I get a chance to surf with some of you guys some day, and feel free to say hi if you ever see me at an event. If you want to reply to this, better email me, I don't monitor this forum. Lastly, if some of you have nicknamed your 400 lb Sacs "ragboy", send it to me, I will autograph it for you. My son has named our 400 lb sacs "dad", so nothing new to me. Maybe flyhigh will make a ragboy, I will be famous. I is what I is, what you see is what you get. ragboy@wake9

Funny, I am sitting here with a centurion owner. Good friend. Anyway, feel free to put the thread back the way it was. What you see is what you get with me. I am not everyone's cup of tea, nor do I try to be. I am posting here only because this post seemed to be partially directed to me. Don't worry, I won't stick around. Not because of the name calling and stuff, doesn't bother me. This is a centurion owners forum, and I don't own one. So post away, I am a big target and I can take it, just leave my family out of it. If any of you are ever in the Lake Oroville area, feel free to contact me, would love to surf with you and you can close down the lake with us. We love surfing with others, and many different types of boats. That's a real offer, many have taken me up on it. Keep surfing, and surf safe! ragboy@wake9