sporte77

Cavitation vs. trans slipping?  Swap out prop to different size before you give up..  Mine cavitated a lot with the stock prop - I swapped out to a 16x13 and no more "slipping" (was actually cavitation) - but totally feels like it's slipping (RPMs go up fast/boat doesn't accelerate).  Just a thought to consider - if you haven't already.

I hope this isn't a dumb question from me... But- have you tried a different prop?  Are you sure it's not cavitating.  I had what felt like slipping when I first got my 2018 Fi21.  I switched props (bigger) and it went away.  It was the prop cavitating.  I now have a 16x13 prop.  I've only had it cavitate once - during some rough water on a surf start.

First, you need to see what the trailer manufacturer is.  Is it a Boatmate - or Extreme trailer?  Mine is an Extreme (2018) and I had to replace the axle and the trailing arm.  Lippert Components owns Extreme now - so you could go through them.  However, all the trailer axle parts are manufactured by UFP.  Soo....  If you knew the model number of the axle - or the trailing arm (and their capacity) - you could buy one on amazon or ebay.   Below, I have listed 2 links.  I don't know what your trailer is - so these LINKS do NOT (probably don't) fit your trailer - I only posted them here so you could see examples of what you may be looking for.  What you need to do is find out the ratings of your trailer.  Hub bearing diameters could be different also - so best you can do is get the manufacturer info - OR you could take it to your boat dealer and they can order the parts for you.  

Heres some examples (but may not be the ones for your trailer) - just to show you pricing, etc, : 

https://amzn.to/3DexPp4 boat trailer trailing arm

https://ebay.us/VnhvnH boat trailer trailing arm

Locally, (i'm near Portland oregon) - I've used Potter-Webster for trailer parts.  But you have to know what you have before you go in:

www.potterwebster.com

Here's Extreme Trailers contact info: Extreme Custom Trailers (extremetrailers.com)

Here's Boatmate: Boatemate Parts (boatmateparts.com)

Old post - but wanted to update.  I’m using 16x13 prop, have 200 hours on the boat now.  And getting 5gph average.  Seems that between the break in hours and bigger prop- I’ve seen gains in efficiency 

Oldish' post - but I ended up installing a Raymarine i40 display and a transom mounted paddle wheel to show true water speed.  While you can just add/subtract the 2-3 mph everytime you go up or downstream - this made is easy to just glance down and adjust.  I usually start off at speed of 12 for surfing - then adjust shortly after.  The install was pretty clean - but tight - because the only place to put the wheel was between the stinger and the plate.  May end up having the dealer put in a thru hull wheel sometime - so there won't be as much erratic readings in the chop.  I decided to try the transom mount first - because it was the least risk - as far as hole size/screws - vs. thru hull.  Also, transom mount was less cost for this experiment.

I did mine using Marine Nano Shop.  Easy wipe now.  We will see how durable it is after this coming summer is over.  Cost me about $300 (plus I bought a couple DA buffers).  Took me about a day to polish the previous coat of wax off with MNS's polish & then their wipe down (mostly alcohol).  The application went faster, about 6 hours.  I had leftovers - so I did my trailer.  The stuff goes a long way. 

I was told that you can - but you have to have the braces that come delivered with the boat to do it safely.  They are black and about a foot long.  They screw into the bolt holes on the base of the tower.  But I've not done it.  Call the dealer - or maybe a dealer can chime in here?  Before you do it.

I've been investigating this issue.  I am also on the Columbia River.  GPS speed is a pain in the A**. 

Without a paddle wheel, every time we go out - I have to screw with guessing and calculating.  On the river, we have tide movements of anywhere from 0-3 mph; we have wind (affecting RPMS); we have current.  So, I thought - "I'll just add 1.5mph going downstream & subtract that going upstream.  But having driven the Fi21 for 4 months now - I'm constantly screwing with the speed based on time of day (tides) & wind.  Changing speed (especially for someone who doesn't drive your boat much) is a pain every time you turn around.

Anyway, I think I've found a solution - but Centurion (in my short term as a convert from Malibu) has been mostly unresponsive answering my questions.  My dealer is great - but has no idea on this issue - and has the same crappy response times from the factory as I do.  So, I usually end up calling Centurion directly.  Here's a copy of the email I sent.  I think this would work.  Of course if I call Murphy/Enovation Controls - they'll just tell me to talk to Centurion.  Usually Centurion tells me to call the dealer....

---------Email to Centurion-------------------

"….. questions of GPS vs Paddle Wheel retrofit possibilities on an Fi21.
My goal is to disconnect the GPS (because it’s a pain in the river to get a consistent wave due to changing current, winds, tides).
Will you please forward this to engineering?
Is it possible that Airmar’s UDST800 (ultrasonic speed,depth,temp) could replace the current Airmar Temp/Depth transducer - if we disconnect the GPS puck?  That way, the speed input is provided by the transducer instead of the GPS.
I think the interface would support it.  Please let me know?  My alternative is to mount an ugly, stand alone paddle wheel & raymarine i40 display.  Yuck."--------

---------------------
Ok - so the basic systems/brains on these boats are a common interface (NMEA, etc.).  So, the ZeroOFF boat brain that's tied into the BUS of the display and engine controls shouldn't care if it's "GPS", a paddle wheel, or an ultrasonic transducer that measures speed.  It's simply a value that goes into the speed input as a signal.  When I called Centurion, one of the customer service guys thought the Fi still has a paddle wheel plug on the harness.  He theorized that if you plugged one in - then unplugged the GPS - the system would use that input.  I haven't gotten a response from Centurion's engineers yet.

I wish they were more responsive.  My '12 Malibu had RPM speed and a paddle wheel control - which I could dial my wave in exactly every time.  YES, a sunflower seed can stop your paddlewheel.  I don't care.  When I go under one of our many bridges - my GPS cuts out and the boat almost stops.  You all know, your speed is critical to dial in the wave and is sensitive within 1/2 MPH.  I know Malibu is a lot bigger and has many more employees (which correlates to their higher price!) - but this issue is something that anyone who operates on a river would PAY to have resolved.

I had the stock 1235. So I chose the 2277 15x15.75 prop  (Fi21 -409 - at sea level).  Ran it today.  It lowered my surf RPMs (mostly full ballast/11mph) from 4100 to 3600.  No noticeable loss of holeshot.  About 1 or 2 mph increase in top speed.  But I know if we go to altitude- I’m going to have to get a 16x13 to bring.  So I’ll probably just keep the  15x15.75 on, and get a 16x13 as my spare.

I wanted to start a thread for Fi21 owners who have upgraded their stock prop.  I've got a 2018 Fi21 with the PCM L96 (409) engine.

My stock prop is the ACME 1235 (14.5x14.25).  At sea level, I'm seeing about 4100-4300 RPM surfing w/ full ballast & about 10.5-11mph.  Top speed is about 33-34 at 4900 RPM.  Also, the holeshot is just fine.

Anyone gone with a bigger prop to get the RPMs down?  Please share your actual experience.

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:48 AM, carguy79ta said:

Just to add to what has been said, I used 40 gal on my first 10 hrs on my 17 RI 257.  Combination of cruising and surfing, fully ballasted.   Now I have lead, and use a little more fuel, but not much.  I am super impressed with the(lack of) fuel I have to put into the boat. Also the surf tabs are way more fuel efficient than surfgate.

Wow!  4 gallons per hour.  That IS amazing.  We must be doing a lot less cruising back and forth to our ride spot.  Also, I've heard guys have changed out their stock prop and seen good gains.  I'm running the stock 1235 (14.5x14.25) and seeing 4100-4300 RPMs surfing btwn 10-11mph with full ballast.  Thinking about getting a bigger prop to drop the RPMs. One other guy said his Fi21 experience is that the fuel consumption goes way up passing 4000rpms.  I don't think I should go all the way up to a 16x13 though - I've got the 409 engine and the shaft is 1-1/8" vs. the HO engines that have the 1-1/4" shaft.  Maybe look at a 15.5 or 15"

10 hours ago, h20king said:

In our fi23 we ride all full with the exception of the bow bag which I fill to 35% plus we have 100lbs of wake ballast under each rear sack 100lbs under transom sack plus 50lbs each side mid ship. Our wake is anything but washed out. 

Yep, 23' vs 21'.  I'm happy & it sounds like you are too.  :-D  

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:11 AM, h20king said:

Create another profile or go to ballast screen and fill sacks that way. 

Oddly, even using the profile with transom bag zero - it was still filling up on it's own when that profile was activated.  So, like I ended up doing with my Malibu, I've reverted to just using the ballast screen.  Too many variables (rider levels, people levels, fuel levels, etc...)..  But I did end up just deactivating the transom bag through the dealer option screen. 

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:10 AM, h20king said:

Why disconnect the transom bag unless you like a small wake we run all full except bow sack which we run at 35%

Fi21 doesn't need the transom bag get a monster wave.  I do have 100# wakeballast steel bags in back though.  I've also got some other stuff back there - so mostly use it as storage area now.  Transom bag is 350#.  The Fi21 has more ballast capacity than it needs to equate & pass any 21' boat surf wave..  If you overload it, you'll just get a washed out surf wave that requires the stinger to be down all the way.  With Ramfill + rear PNP lockers - its enough.  I also fill the Center & Bow ballast (plus people of course).   With the 21' boats - they're a little more sensitive to "pitch" than the longer boats.

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 8:24 AM, wheels said:

When you refuel are you filling up all 46 gallons? On my ri my gauge can say zero even with bow up and there’s no way I can get the full capacity of 63 gallons back in. 

Pretty sure I am.  I've filled up twice when the guage was about an 1/8-1/4 tank and it took 41 gallons.  I also am getting the zero fuel on my gauge when the boat is full.  But after about 10 minutes of running it shows full again. 

I just came from a 2012 Malibu VLX.  46 gallon tank, I would get 9 hours surfing and wakeboarding (using a suck gate- the surfgate came out in ‘13).  That’s about 5gph.  Now, my new 2018 Fi21, I get 7 hours from a 48 gallon tank. That’s appx 6.8gph.  Same mix of surf and wake.  So I’m not sold on their up to 50% efficiency claim.  HOWEVER- the Fi21 weighs at least 1,000 lbs more than the VLX (2012) - and has more ballast.  My expectation was that the “efficiency pitch” from Centurion sales should equate to what my VLX got.  But these are the real numbers.  I didn’t buy the Fi21 for Economy!  I bought it because in my opinion- it kicked other brands’ butts - in surf wave and wakeboard wakes - that I demoed.  That’s my experience and opinion.  So I’m not put off by how it sucks more gas than my Malibu did.  Bigger boat-the Fi21.

Answer: it was in dealer settings (lock symbol).  Then I just set the fill and empty times to zero and joined the fill and drain hoses.

Delivered 7/20/18... Fi21

Just got the Fi21 yesterday.  I got the optional PNP transom bag with it.  I found that I don't need it.  When I was using the quicksurf profile settings (surf left, etc.) - I had the transom bag set to zero - but it kept filling anyway!

So my question is this - I am going to remove the transom bag.  Can I somehow deactivate the pump through programming - or do I have to unplug wiring?  Or, do I just attach/join the fill and overflow hoses?  Obviously, if it's set to zero & keeps trying to fill anyway, it's going to pump water in the transom locker.

There is one other BIG DEAL I am worried about with the Fi boats:   Centurion has not come up with a "recall" style dealer fix for the fact that if you sit with the engine shut off, while full of ballast, water is going to go up the exhaust into the engine.  That's a pretty big deal to me.  I don't think I'll forget - but how many engines have gotten - or will get water inside the oil.  Sure, after a hydro-lock, the dealer will drain the oil and get out some water - but it will never get it all out.   It's definitely going to reduce engine internal component life.  Factory guys - are you listening?

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:18 AM, sporte77 said:

I have a garage door opening of 7'10" (8 foot door).  While shopping for boats last year (I wanted an Ri217 then) - I found that NOTHING fit.  My 2012 Malibu VLX's board rack on the tower actually touches the rubber seal on the top of my door now as it passes under.  I've since taken some drywall off the area above my garage door that covers the beam.  I found that the framing was done so that you could accommodate a close to a 9' door if you wanted to when the house was built.  My builder installed 8' doors.  It's tight - but for $1700 I found a garage door company that will add a panel & one of those low clearance jackshaft openers & hardware to bring my clearance up to 8'9" (limited by the structural beam".  After I found this out - I decided to measure the Fi21 thoroughly to make sure it will fit - both in height and length.  I park the boat in the DOUBLE side.  I have a single 8x8 door and a double 16x8 door now.  The trailers (and now boats) won't fit through the single door (they're wider than 8').

 

Here are the measurements I took of the Centurion Fi21 for garage fit purposes... Height will vary depending on trailer wheel size, hitch height, trailer brand.  My dealer, Northwest Boat Sports, has lowered trailers before & said they have some "quick release" knobs for the bimini. Their not really quick release - but they are faster than the bolts that come stock.

8'3" - Tower Height when folded - measured on the tower frame itself. 15" wheels.  Add about an inch for 18" - but you can lower the Extreme trailers an inch or so (don't know about boatmate).

Note:  The bimini frame sticks up above the tower higher than the 8'3".  You can get some knobs that will allow the bimini to be removed.  I measured the height of it - but forgot to write it down.

23'0" - Length with trailer tongue folded - to silent stinger (Swim Platform removed/Extreme brand trailer).

24'0" - Length with trailer tongue folded - to swim platform.

8'6" - Width of trailer tires. Outside to outside of tire.

 

I'll have 1" of clearance with the platform off.  My garage is 23'11" door to wall.  If I cut out the drywall behind the platform & notch the bottom frame on the garage door I don't have to take off the platform - woohoo....  My VLX has one inch right now of clearance with the platform on.   Since the Fi21 model is relatively new (about a year at this point) - I'll try to post as many mods and info as I can after I get mine in mid-july.  Anyone know how to get to the impeller?  That engine - sunk way down low makes me nervous for do it yourself maint.  I've always done my own - but these deep hulls are quite a challenge to reach stuff.

UPDATE:

I just got my Fi21 yesterday.  The 18" wheels add 3" to the height.  So, the actual height of the tower when folded (and bimini frame detached and folded back) is 8'6".  My modified garage door opening is 8'7" !!  Whew - that was close... Now I need to get some knobs to release the bimini frame easier.  It's a pain - but I really like the Fi21.  It's a monster compared to my 2012 Malibu VLX.  Just massive.  Over a thousand pounds heavier and so tall.  I am getting a longer surf wave (I'm guessing about 5-6' longer just from today's first 5 hours on the boat).

Great mods!!  Thanks for sharing.  

Can you tell us where you got the lift supports and which make/model they were?  Thanks!

It’s a GM 6.0 L96.  Ive changed several on other boats where you can actually see down under the engine when you lay down.  But you can’t with the Fi21.  It’s so far below the locker floor and the back of engine is under the rear transom trunk.  Was just wondering if anyone here has actually done one on the Fi boats yet.  I know how to do it - when you can get to them.....  I’ll be stopping by the dealer tomorrow and do a little investigating.

Anyone seen how to get to the impeller on an Fi21 or Fi23?

I'm buying an Fi21 and looking way down in there at that engine in that deeper hull gives me chills.  I've been able to change the oil & filter & impeller on my Malibu VLX - but I can't see how you're going to get to the bottom or back of that engine in an Fi....

I have a garage door opening of 7'10" (8 foot door).  While shopping for boats last year (I wanted an Ri217 then) - I found that NOTHING fit.  My 2012 Malibu VLX's board rack on the tower actually touches the rubber seal on the top of my door now as it passes under.  I've since taken some drywall off the area above my garage door that covers the beam.  I found that the framing was done so that you could accommodate a close to a 9' door if you wanted to when the house was built.  My builder installed 8' doors.  It's tight - but for $1700 I found a garage door company that will add a panel & one of those low clearance jackshaft openers & hardware to bring my clearance up to 8'9" (limited by the structural beam".  After I found this out - I decided to measure the Fi21 thoroughly to make sure it will fit - both in height and length.  I park the boat in the DOUBLE side.  I have a single 8x8 door and a double 16x8 door now.  The trailers (and now boats) won't fit through the single door (they're wider than 8').

Here are the measurements I took of the Centurion Fi21 for garage fit purposes... Height will vary depending on trailer wheel size, hitch height, trailer brand.  My dealer, Northwest Boat Sports, has lowered trailers before & said they have some "quick release" knobs for the bimini. Their not really quick release - but they are faster than the bolts that come stock.

8'3" - Tower Height when folded - measured on the tower frame itself. 15" wheels.  Add about an inch for 18" - but you can lower the Extreme trailers an inch or so (don't know about boatmate).

Note:  The bimini frame sticks up above the tower higher than the 8'3".  You can get some knobs that will allow the bimini to be removed.  I measured the height of it - but forgot to write it down.

23'0" - Length with trailer tongue folded - to silent stinger (Swim Platform removed/Extreme brand trailer).

24'0" - Length with trailer tongue folded - to swim platform.

8'6" - Width of trailer tires. Outside to outside of tire.

I'll have 1" of clearance with the platform off.  My garage is 23'11" door to wall.  If I cut out the drywall behind the platform & notch the bottom frame on the garage door I don't have to take off the platform - woohoo....  My VLX has one inch right now of clearance with the platform on.   Since the Fi21 model is relatively new (about a year at this point) - I'll try to post as many mods and info as I can after I get mine in mid-july.  Anyone know how to get to the impeller?  That engine - sunk way down low makes me nervous for do it yourself maint.  I've always done my own - but these deep hulls are quite a challenge to reach stuff.

I just went through this process.  I chose the Fi21.  Here’s the summary why... it was not an easy choice.    I have a 2012 Malibu VLX (no surf gate).  I really like my VLX- it’s a sharp boat.  But over the years, I’ve uncovered numerous QC issues that were hidden under - in areas you cannot see.  Right after the 5 year warranty expired, the $1000 + touchscreen delaminates (a known issue). In 2012, my VLX was advanced in hull design.  Not now.  We are ready for an automated surf system.

 Last year I surfed behind a 2017 Ri217.  I loved the space!  Big boat for a 21’.  The surf wave was great.  But this year I surfed behind a 2018 Fi23 and the surf wave was PERFECT.  Must be the opti-V hull?  Blew me away.  Too big for my garage... So, I demoed and surfed behind the 2018 Supra SR and the 2018 Centurion Fi21.  I decided not to go Malibu again.  Although, I do like the 22VLX - it Just seemed like they slowed down and the other manufacturers have caught them.  So, why pay $10-$15k more?  Wasn’t as impressed with surf gate as other systems lately.  I rode behind a 2015 VLX before- Didn’t wow me.

I wakeboarded behind the Fi21- but not the SR.  However, surfing is 80% of what we do.  Both boats were offered at about $99-100k.  I really wanted the Supra because it came fully loaded - the power tower, power seat (wife wanted it), and it fits under an 8’ tall garage door.  However, we were looking to advance our surfing and wakeboard enjoyment - and the Fi21 won that test.  Our core concern is the ride BEHIND the boat - so bells and whistles didn’t win over wave and wake quality.  I have to say that Supra really gives the others a run for the money!!  Malibu and Nautique, in my opinion, are now overpriced.  Maybe someone could setup the SR differently to help the wave.  But it didn’t happen in our demo.  In fairness- I should have tried the wakeboard wake of the SR, but we ran out of time.  Plus - I got tired of listening to the ballast pumps whining all the time - adjusting the boat’s level ride.  If I recall, they both had nice fit and finish overall.

2018 Supra SR vs. Centurion Fi21

2018 Supra SR-

Pros:  Loaded. Advanced features like power tower, power seat, easy Bimini, active wake system, sliding rear seat/table. Lots of bang for your buck!!

Cons: the active wake system (when enabled) is always humming - annoying; surf wave wasn’t as good to me as the Fi surf.  That’s about it, but we are very picky about wave and wake.

2018 Centurion Fi21

Pros:  Surf wave beat the SR (push, height, length) with only 2 in boat & with only 2 PNP rear bags (+factory ramfill); wakeboard wake was incredible - narrower than my VLX, gradual and easy to customize, big without much ballast - made crossing the wake pretty effortless- which my kids will like.  Rear transom trunk. Ramfill is great.  Still uses pumps though in PNP bags (they all do).

Cons: Bimini is not easy - only slightly easier than my VLX - and it’s a floppy mess when you start deployment.  Doesn’t come “loaded” as the SR with advanced stuff (see SR features). No sliding rear seat in the 21- only the 23.  Lockers are small because they put in side storage and rear transom storage (it’s a trade off).  8’4” tall with  tower folded - won’t fit under my 8’ door(That’s DUMB for a “premium entry level” boat).

Rant.....Manufacturers are LOSING sales in the upgrade market, where people don’t want to pay for storage and have an 8’ door.  I was going to just install a Go Surf Assist because nothing fit under my garage door.  How many other boat owners with an 8’ garage door won’t upgrade?

Finally.....

So, the wave and wake test sealed the deal and I’ve ordered an Fi21.  BUT, that was after I tore a little piece of drywall off above the garage door to see if my beam was down low - or up higher.  Turns out I can remove the lower framing (not the beam) - and get 8’9” of clearance.  If that hadn’t been the case, I’d have installed the GSA on my VLX.  The garage door mod will cost me $1700 - which kind of burns me.  I know that Centurion will probably have the sliding seat, power tower and power seat next year ... just like my 2012 VLX didn’t have a surfgate until 2013!!  That hurt.  But that’s the way it works.  At least I’ll have what I consider the best wave and a new warranty.

Bottom line:  I can say the Fi21, with mostly stock ballast & a couple locker bags had the best surf wave AND the best wakeboard wake I’ve EVER ridden. SOLD.