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camojoe157

perko switch with dual batteries help

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camojoe157    0

Done some research and just need a little help. I have two batteries and picked up a perko switch. I semi understand the principle behind it just want to make sure im hooked up correctly. For reference battery 1 is what i want to start the boat and battery 2 i want to use for evwrything else (accessories, speakers, amp, ect....)

On perko switch setting 1 I have the starting battery positive (battery 1) hooked up, on perko switch setting 2 I have the second battery positive hooked up . The common on the perko has the main red cable from motor hooked to it, the main ground from the boat motor is hooked to battery number 1 with a negative cable going from one battery to the other, so far I believe im hooked up properly right?...?

 

Okay so then I get a touch confused, the main circuit panel with all fuses should have the positive and ground ran to which battery? And what I mean is under the passenger seat where my batteries are is a 50 amp disconnect which im assuming is for the fuses, which battery does the positive and negative go wired go to.

Any help is appreciated.

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Wylie_Tunes    146

Camojoe,

 

The ideal configuration is to terminate ALL B+ cables to the switch "C" post, accept the B+ for the auto bilge. In this setup, the loads will draw from which ever battery you have the switch turn to and you can always leave oen battery isolated for restarting.

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RhuntIII    555

Wylie, You always come in with info that's just like "What!"

 

Camojoe, I think what you have is correct. I can see what Wylie is trying to get at, I just don't know of B+ and C post.

Does you Perko have the "All" position for options in switching? The switch I have has this and I know there are different types of switches on the market. I think having the "All" position is the better.

 

If your switch has "all" position then with your wiring diagram you could use battery one to start the engine when battery two is low. After the engine is running you could switch to the "All" position to charge both batteries. When leaving the boat in the water (over night or just in party cove) you would want to switch to battery Two. This will keep voltage to your bilge pump and any other electronics like the radio. When my boat is out of the water and in storage I switch to the "All" and use a trickle charger with a limit switch to keep the batteries fresh for the next time out.

 

Good luck and let us know about the positions on your switch.

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Wylie_Tunes    146

Rhunt,

 

B stands for battery

+ stands for positive

C stands for the common post of the switch.

 

The ideal configuration (there are others that will work electrically, but they are not ideal) is to have all, as in every single battery positive cable, connecting to the common post of the switch. The only exception, is the battery positive wire, typically a brown wire with red tracer, for the automatic bilge. It needs to connect directly to the battery positive post of the main cranking battery.

 

The above method insures that all electronics share the same battery reference voltage. This is very important for the audio gear. It also insures that the alternator is always providing a charge to the same battery that the electrical loads are drawing off of when the engine is running. In the above schematic, it would be very easy to run BATT-2 dead running the stereo, because the switch is in the BATT-1 position.

 

Again, this is not the only way electrically to wire 2 batteries and a traditional dual-battery switch, but I feel its the most ideal.

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acman    59

That drawing looks off to me. Take a pic of the back, terminal side, of your switch. You might need a different switch if your trying to separate the start/stereo batteries.

Edited by acman

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truekaotik    458

Done some research and just need a little help. I have two batteries and picked up a perko switch. I semi understand the principle behind it just want to make sure im hooked up correctly. For reference battery 1 is what i want to start the boat and battery 2 i want to use for evwrything else (accessories, speakers, amp, ect....)

On perko switch setting 1 I have the starting battery positive (battery 1) hooked up, on perko switch setting 2 I have the second battery positive hooked up . The common on the perko has the main red cable from motor hooked to it, the main ground from the boat motor is hooked to battery number 1 with a negative cable going from one battery to the other, so far I believe im hooked up properly right?...?

Okay so then I get a touch confused, the main circuit panel with all fuses should have the positive and ground ran to which battery? And what I mean is under the passenger seat where my batteries are is a 50 amp disconnect which im assuming is for the fuses, which battery does the positive and negative go wired go to.

Any help is appreciated.

There are a couple ways you can wire that perko. All common like Wylie suggests, making the ability to switch back and forth with all the loads suckng the life out of one battery at a time and faster...

OR

Split the loads, Using the perko to seperate the start/running loads from the stereo/ ballast loads when floating.. This comes in handy when you throttle that stereo at the sand bar till your battery cries for mercy to stop.. Flip the switch back to one. Start the boat and drive home to charge that depleted battery as to not Tax the alternator or the other batteries power... Essentially dictating which "bank" you'd like the alternator to charge. Charging a seriously depleted bank is taxing on the alternator and can cause premature failure....

 

Is it a 1/2/both/off or a 1/2/off perko? This is good info to help determine the ideal wiring...

Edited by truekaotik

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Wylie_Tunes    146


True-K,

 


In your configuration: With the battery run dead at the sand bar and the stereo
wired directly to that dead battery, you have now lost the use of the stereo
for the rest of the day if you do not want to combine the banks through the
switch and allow the alternator to begin to replenish the depleted battery. As
you stated, you wouldn’t want to tax the alternator with recharging that dead
battery, but the stereo is wired directly to it, right?

 


With the stereo wired to the C post, the house battery can still be run completely
run dead at the sand bar/party cove, that same dead battery can still be left
isolated from the alternator so as to not tax the alternator, yet the stereo is
still usable because its wired to the common post and now drawing through the
main cranking bank, which is fed by the alt with the engine running. With the
engine now running, you can switch back to the house bank or to BOTH, providing
the switch is a "make before break" design and can safely be switch between
banks with the engine running. "make before break" means that
internally, the switch is connected to the next position electrically, before
it disconnects from the previous position. Not all switches work in this fashion.

 

Im not stating other means are wrong, just hoping to point out the advantages of wiring the dual-battery switch in the industry standard configuration.

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truekaotik    458

Yes I know Wylie and most don't crush thier battery like that anyways, they make their battery bank big enough to handle that and more when doing a stereo... I wasn't saying either was better, they both have their plus and minuses.. Just posted the two different ways ( one being yours) . The reader can decidewhat he wants to take on..

 

The downside to "your" way is that with a taxing stereo railing on one battery you are now taking amperage away from the ignition system.. Didn't think of that huh? That's more vital than no stereo brother... The second way you can make it back if the alternator craps out without knowing. The first you'd have to be more observant of your dash and not pound that sub... First way you can shut ALL loads off as well...

 

See pluses and minuses for both ways ;) I've done both numerous times and not opposed to either.

Edited by truekaotik

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truekaotik    458

 

True-K,[/size]

 

 

In your configuration: With the battery run dead at the sand bar and the stereo

wired directly to that dead battery, you have now lost the use of the stereo

for the rest of the day if you do not want to combine the banks through the

switch and allow the alternator to begin to replenish the depleted battery. As

you stated, you wouldnt want to tax the alternator with recharging that dead

battery, but the stereo is wired directly to it, right? [/size]

 

 

With the stereo wired to the C post, the house battery can still be run completely

run dead at the sand bar/party cove, that same dead battery can still be left

isolated from the alternator so as to not tax the alternator, yet the stereo is

still usable because its wired to the common post and now drawing through the

main cranking bank, which is fed by the alt with the engine running. With the

engine now running, you can switch back to the house bank or to BOTH, providing

the switch is a "make before break" design and can safely be switch between

banks with the engine running. "make before break" means that

internally, the switch is connected to the next position electrically, before

it disconnects from the previous position. Not all switches work in this fashion.[/size]

 

Im not stating other means are wrong, just hoping to point out the advantages of wiring the dual-battery switch in the industry standard configuration.

 

You mean factory standard? Lol industry...

You talk about keeping the battery isolated at first then roll into combining it after start? You can do this in both configurations and a dead battery... Well... Is a dead battery.. Connecting either way after start is not good on the alternator.. But hey to each his own...

I did ask what switch he had, waiting for a answer.. Or do you know already he has a "make/break" perko? Didn't think so... Always a pleasure Wylie...

BTW what was the industry standard say 6 years ago? Yeah.. Battery option number two... ;)

Now days? Not battery option one.. Now they like ASR/VSR systems... On board monitors.. Ect... Times a keep changing that is for sure bro... It's fun for us huh :)

 

 

Either is a way to do it now back on topic..

Edited by truekaotik

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Wylie_Tunes    146

Either is a way to do it now back on topic..

 

 

This thread has not left the topic and I do not intend for it to. My comments have been on point and will stay on point......battery switch wiring.

 

Yes, industry standard. Boat manufactures wire their traditional dual-battery switches in this manor. Reputable marinas install dual battery banks with traditional dual-battery switches in this manor. The big, long time marine 12V shops, wire their traditional dual-battery banks in this manor. There is a reason for that. As I stated, your way is not wrong electrically, but I will say again and clearly state, its not the most ideal. The OP and anyone else fallowing along can away from this thread, what they want.

 

I do not know what style of switch the OP has, did no claim to, nor did I assume. I clearly stated that not all switches are make before break, therefore its not suggested to change the switch position on all switch types. If he has a make before break, then it is safe to switch between 1, 2 and BOTH, while the engine is running.

 

Adding in a diode type isolator or an ACR/VSR will clearly change the wiring scheme, as well as how the switch is used. Since he is not going this route, I would rather save this discussion for another thread where its more relevant. There are plenty of boats still being built with a traditional 1/2/BOTH/OFF battery switch. I looked at a 2012 Bennington pontoon and a 2011 Searay 290 last week. Both had this dual battery configuration. There are also boats being built with diode isolators as well as with ACR/VSR battery setups. These are not knew. Tige, MC and Chaparrel have all been using these configurations for 8+ years.

 

The downside to "your" way is that with a taxing stereo railing on one battery you are now taking amperage away from the ignition system.. Didn't think of that huh? That's more vital than no stereo brother...

This is a valid point, but one that was solved long before you or i hit the marine audio scene. Here is how I would approach it. If the scope of the stereo is so large, that the alternator can not keep pace with the system and the rest of the boat loads, there are 2 viable solutions. 1) upgrade the alternator. 2) build a complete stand alone battery bank.

 

In the scenario you have given here, where the stereo is robbing voltage form the rest of the system, is a valid point. Simply turning down the volume a little, will allow the alternator to replenish the house bank a little. But as noted earlier, having the stereo wired directly to the house battery will deplete that battery, unless the bank is brought back on line with the alternator. At this point, you lose the stereo completely and that battery is run down WAY past a reasonable point of depletion. This shortens the life of a battery. Also, if other accessories, such as the ballast pumps, are wired directly to the house bank, those to are rendered useless when the house battery is run dead and left isolated from the alt. At that point, how does one dump the ballast before heading to the dock and loading the boat on the trailer.

 

Troy's schematic is spot on. I hope those fallowing along will print it out and compare the power flow of the two different methods discussed here.

 

In closing, True-K, just to be perfectly clear here. I am in NO way, trying to change your mind. I am simply taking your point/counter point comments, and expanding on the reasoning behind what I have posted here. I hope all this info can be of use to those fallowing along.

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truekaotik    458

You are simply funny Wylie.. Yes other will follow along. Troys is a good way, never disagreed withTroy.. You on the other hand have been at my throat since I came here. These people see as well.. Have a great day Mr. I'm the man :) it's not industry standard.. There are many industry standards as you pointed out.. Lmao.. Talk in circles some more buddy. Again I just posted two ways... Funny you keep thinking it's my way... Your silly as hell bro...

Edited by truekaotik

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truekaotik    458

Question boss man.. Tell me how the second way isn't "ideal" again??? Manufacturers today still do "my way"(which in fact I do rarely) ... So what industry standard are we going for??? Lmao...

 

 

 

 

TOOL..

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RhuntIII    555

Wylie and true,

 

Why don't y'all draw a simple schematic like camo did while I read y'alls debate.

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RhuntIII    555

If camo took the red wire from the fuse panel to the common of the battery selector switch then if the switch had the option of "all" then camo could run both batteries at the same time or battery one or battery two at a time never loosing the radio. So at party cove use battery two for radio and when two is low switch to battery one to start the engine then back to "all" to charge both.

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truekaotik    458

Google is a wonderful

Thing...

It will prolly show you both plus many more schematics Rhunt... There are many ways to do this with many different switches and isolators.... Ideally it's up to the consumer or the pushy tech to the way it's done.... I choose to listen and respond rather than direct....

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RhuntIII    555

Google is a wonderful

Thing...

It will prolly show you both plus many more schematics Rhunt... There are many ways to do this with many different switches and isolators.... Ideally it's up to the consumer or the pushy tech to the way it's done.... I choose to listen and respond rather than direct....

Sometimes I get, most times I get lost in the wording and like to follow a schematic. I also understand that there might be several ways to create this dual battery set up. This is close to my profession so I enjoy following threads like this and asking questions.

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RhuntIII    555

What is this

 

ACR/VSR battery setup

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