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knotguilty    6

Bad day on the lake yesterday with my '05 Avy. My transmission was slipping a little bit when I put it in gear right after I put it in the water so I checked the fluid and the dipstick showed about an 1/8 under the full line. Should be no problem but I added a bit of fluid to top it off. We didn't have any problems after that until we were surfing in the afternoon. The transmission started slipping in and out of gear at load. The transmission was smoking and too hot to touch the dipstick. We limped it back to the ramp and onto the trailer. Once everything cooled down the dipstick showed about 1/2 and the oil smelled burnt.

 

I'm thinking a new transmission is in order or at very least a rebuild. I can get a new Velvet Drive 71C at skidim.com for $1750 and I will have to replace the oil cooler and the damper plate (another $300). I'm thinking that is not to bad.

 

After doing some research there are a few other models that Velvet drive offers that are the heavy duty versions. In particular the 72L and the 72L-H. Where I load up my boat and do a lot of wake surfing would it be advisable to upgrade my transmission? Will these other models be a direct plug in?

 

Also I have done a couple of transmission change outs on cars but never in a boat. How hard is it to align the shaft? How long does a tranny change out usually take if I go to a dealership (looking for cost)? Will Velvet Drive honor the warranty if I do the change out myself?

 

This is the first boat I've owned so any information that would help with tranny replacement would be helpful.

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acman    59

I would check the cooler for trash on the intake side. Hopefully u just overheated the fluid beyond its boiling point and thats what caused it to slip. I would change the fluid and give it a try.

Edited by acman

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DaveO    0

+1 for what acman said.

Make sure the trans cooler is not blocked.

Change the fluid. When you put the boat in the water you must idle in gear and check your fluid level. If the fluid is low it will slip.

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72C is larger and will not fit in the same location to your V-drive. Also would take a different V-Drive adapter. The 8.1L MerCruiser's used the 72C and it was a lot larger transmission. I would agree about the cooler first, check to see if if has trash in it. It would be a lot less expensive to rebuild your transmission than buy a new one. Just need to find a shop that knows how to do it correctly.

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knotguilty    6

Love the optimism guys! Thanks for all the help. I took the trip to my storage where my boat is kept today. The raw water filter is clean and both ends of the tranny cooler seemed to be clean. Also while out on the lake (when having trouble) the transmission cooler was cold while you could cook an egg on the transmission. One of the transmission lines was limp and was way to hot to touch while the other side was warm but touchable. All things that suggest (to me anyway) that the tranny cooler was working.

 

While I was checking things out I noticed the bilge has lots of transmission fluid in it. The transmission is still 1/2 full so I'm guessing the fluid in the bilge is from the fluid expanding and boiling out of the overfill. I would assume if a seal had blown out there wouldn't be any fluid left?

 

The model number of the transmission is a Velvet Drive 10-17-104. S/N 1605. Should I be looking for an exact model or is there a model that is better?

Edited by knotguilty

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knotguilty    6

Also, how hard is a tranny rebuild? Something I want to try myself? What questions should I be asking the shop if I have someone else do it?

 

Should I trust the 71C 10-17-104 or is this a bad model for surfing. I usually surf with almost 3000#s of water in the boat +4-5 people. 1100 in the port locker, 600 under the port seat, 800 in the bow and the stock center 300 and starboard 200 hard tanks. Is this just too much for the tranny? I have a Mercruiser 350 (315HP) and it seems to do fine with the water. I have no idea what prop I have but it has 3 blades. If needed I can get up on plane and hit ~40MPH @ just shy of 5KRPM in ~2 minutes. When surfing it takes about 7 seconds to be up to surfing speed (11.2 mph). Not sure I trust the old model but I trust the crews judgement here and I'm sure rebuild will save me some dough. Looks like a rebuild kit is only ~$150. I just don't want to have to do this again in a year or 2.

 

Again thanks for the help!

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superdtf    68

Dude, that blows! I agree with the guys, find a reputable local guy that will rebuild that for you. It should take a day. So add a day to remove, a day to rebuild, and install it the next day. And you're back on the water.

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71C is the correct transmission for your engine. No other that I have ever heard of.

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DaveO    0

When you think about it it's no wonder the transmission's in these boats are having problems. A trans in a boat is different from a vehicle. It's constantly under load, no coasting or what ever. It's like driving up hill all the time. The boat weighs say 4000lbs and then we 2000lbs of ballast plus 4-6 people. All of this and the trans only has 2-3 liters of tranny fluid. Doesn't take long to get hot.

Someone needs to come up with a deeper oil pan or a larger trans cooler to increase the fluid capacity to make them stand up to the work load we put them under.

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crew chief    4

Someone did make a bigger cooler and I have seen deeper oil pans. We run them on are offshore race boats

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superdtf    68

I agree. The cooler might be the key here. I've been around DD boats since the 70's The 71c is time-tested and bomb proof. When it fails, it's because the fluid burnt up or went away. I can't think of a single example where it was something besides that.

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Mine was spitting fluid out of the vent on top and tranny was slipping so we thought it needed a rebuild $800 dollars later my v-drive guy said the old cluthes looked fine. He suggested an overflow so we built an aluminum overflow bottle attached it to the ski pylon frame and a hose from the bottom of the bottle to the vent after removing the cap on the vent, Now I can run extra fluid, when it spitts out it just runs back down into the tranny. We havent had any problems since this mod for 2 years.

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superdtf    68

Mine was spitting fluid out of the vent on top and tranny was slipping so we thought it needed a rebuild $800 dollars later my v-drive guy said the old cluthes looked fine. He suggested an overflow so we built an aluminum overflow bottle attached it to the ski pylon frame and a hose from the bottom of the bottle to the vent after removing the cap on the vent, Now I can run extra fluid, when it spitts out it just runs back down into the tranny. We havent had any problems since this mod for 2 years.

That's an awesome mod; basically run the vent really high, and it becomes it's own sort of reservoir. I've always added a little bit of Lucas Transmission Fix to mine. ;)

 

The following is taken from the "71C - 72C In-line and V-Drive Models, Marine Transmission Owner's Manual"

Uses oil type:
GM Dexron III, Ford Mercon, Daimler-Benz 236.6 or any SAE 10 hydraulic oil that meets Allison Type C3, Caterpillar TO-2 or equivalent specifications.

Oil capacity: 5 US quarts (4.9 liters).

Some high performance applications may result in foaming and leakage from transmission's vent. Under these circumstances, Velvet-Drive suggest using oils meeting Allison Type C3 or Caterpillar TO-2 specifications. In addition, it may be necessary to experiment with fluid level in these applications.

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Daylorb    3

Mine was spitting fluid out of the vent on top and tranny was slipping so we thought it needed a rebuild $800 dollars later my v-drive guy said the old cluthes looked fine. He suggested an overflow so we built an aluminum overflow bottle attached it to the ski pylon frame and a hose from the bottom of the bottle to the vent after removing the cap on the vent, Now I can run extra fluid, when it spitts out it just runs back down into the tranny. We havent had any problems since this mod for 2 years.

 

Geat modification. My tranny has been driving me nuts and I'm close to putting this in. There is no doubt I am losing some oil from the vent. I've had the tranny rebuilt, all the seals done, the cooler and all hoses pressure-tested. The only conclusion is that either the guy who did the work did not do it properly, he missed something, or the vent is having this issue.

 

I actually put a folded paper towel wrapped tightly around the vent, as well as another one around the main seal between the tranny and v drive to see if either was dripping. Nothing came out of the main seal, very little came out of the vent - but some. The issue I have is that I am losing half my tranny oil about every two weeks - seems far too much to be coming out of the vent alone.

 

I've taken the boat in to Sail and Ski here in Austin to have them look at it and if they can't figure it out I'm going to do the mod. What puzzles me in addition to the vent not leaking much is that out of the three mechanics I've talked to who are pretty experienced, none of them have ever heard of a vent leaking this much.

 

If I am to go this route - how did you tweak the vent itself to get a hose on there? Did you pull out the breather and cut off the top and lace a hose? What specifically did you use for a reservoir?

 

Thanks!

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superdtf    68

This makes no sense to me. I'm not criticizing, I just can't wrap my head around it. If you're losing the fluid, it's going somewhere. I can think of the following possibilities:

  1. It's leaking into your bilge, and somehow you haven't noticed. -likely that it's leaking, not likely you haven't noticed.
  2. It's leaking into your bell housing - but then it would leak from there and it's unlikely that you wouldn't have noticed that. But I have seen the case where someone thought they had rear main leak, and it turned out they ALSO had a tranny leak but didn't know it, because the ATF became mixed with the motor oil (and they weren't really looking for ATF) - but you don't have a rear main leak.
  3. It's evaporating - in minute quantities, some may escape the vent as misty vapor, but this is hard to believe that it would ever be noticeable. Unless it got super-burning-hot; you'd also have big performance issues if that was the case.

But I don't like ANY of these. It's like the underpants gnomes targeted your ATF.

Edited by superdtf

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Daylorb    3

This makes no sense to me. I'm not criticizing, I just can't wrap my head around it. If you're losing the fluid, it's going somewhere. I can think of the following possibilities:

  1. It's leaking into your bilge, and somehow you haven't noticed. -likely that it's leaking, not likely you haven't noticed.
  2. It's leaking into your bell housing - but then it would leak from there and it's unlikely that you wouldn't have noticed that. But I have seen the case where someone thought they had rear main leak, and it turned out they ALSO had a tranny leak but didn't know it, because the ATF became mixed with the motor oil (and they weren't really looking for ATF) - but you don't have a rear main leak.
  3. It's evaporating - in minute quantities, some may escape the vent as misty vapor, but this is hard to believe that it would ever be noticeable. Unless it got super-burning-hot; you'd also have big performance issues if that was the case.

But I don't like ANY of these. It's like the underpants gnomes targeted your ATF.

 

 

Oh it is leaking into the bilge - quite a bit. Had the tranny rebuilt/new seals put in winter of 2010-2011. Leaked all last summer. Had the tranny redone again this spring - leaks continue. A permanent fixture in my bilge is an oil absorber which gets beet red within a few weeks. I've been trying to identify where the leaks are coming from since the mechanic has not been able to do so. Definitely some from the vent - just does not seem like enough - seems like a drop or two not quarts/month.

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superdtf    68

I'll bet your really good lunch that it's leaking into the bellhousing.

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GregW    0

Have you tried contacting Velvet drive directly?

 

I am having a different transmission problem... When mine is in neutral the prop still spins as if i have just engaged into forward...I emailed velvet drive directly and got a reply that same day...The guy who replied said that it sounds like the clutch is slipping and it would be $700 or so for a rebuilt one from them...anyone else have this problem?

 

 

Greg

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Daylorb    3

Thanks - good suggestion. Just contacted them.

 

Super - I know a lot of parts on the boat - but not too intimate with the Bellhousing. Are you thinking that the seal on the bellhousing could be okay on the tranny side, but leak out on the engine side? Or just that it could be leaking anywhere around the bellhousing?

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superdtf    68

Have you tried contacting Velvet drive directly?

 

I am having a different transmission problem... When mine is in neutral the prop still spins as if i have just engaged into forward...I emailed velvet drive directly and got a reply that same day...The guy who replied said that it sounds like the clutch is slipping and it would be $700 or so for a rebuilt one from them...anyone else have this problem?

 

 

Greg

Greg, like spinning while you're in the water and propelling your boat forward? Or spins a little when you're on the trailer?

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