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Installing Perko Battery Switch & New Optima Deep Cycle Battery, question about wiring

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ReSession    165

I'm already on to my next project (pulled my stock tank and plumbed the 750lb sac in the port locker on Easter Sunday...just waiting for the rain to end so I can get some decent pictures. I discovered it was a no-go for a custom sac that I was planning to use because after I pulled the tanks, the compartment on my Ski Supreme V220 had some funky tapers that would have brought the size/weight down significantly!)

 

Part of the above job involves relocating the battery to the starboard compartment (running out of room for storage which is why I'm going with the starboard locker versus the main port side storage compartment). I plan on keeping 1 of the stock batteries (as it's always charged/recharged to 100%) and I just purchased an Optima D34M deep cycle battery to use for the stereo/accessories.

 

Plan:

  • Both the + and - wires running from the engine are currently 2-gauge
  • My plan is to run a 6 ft 2-gauge wire from the stock ground (-) connection (replacing the current one which isn't long enough) and run that to the negative (-) connection of Battery #1.
  • From there, I plan to run a 4-gauge negative wire to the negative terminal of Battery #2, to connect them in a series.
  • I will then run a shorter (2-3 foot) piece of 4-gauge positive wire from the #1 and #2 positive connections on the Perko switch to their corresponding #1 and #2 positive battery terminals.
  • I will then run an 8 ft 2-gauge wire from the positive terminal on the Perko switch to the positive connection on the boat's starter.

Questions:

  • Will I have any issues with 1 battery draining/not recharging correctly with 2-gauge going into 1 and then having it piggy-back connected to battery 2's negative terminal (or should I use ALL 2-gauge)?
  • Should I attempt to connect/splice the ground wire together, as the Perko manual shows? If so, what's the best connection to use here to ensure proper connections?
  • Does anyone see any issue with me running 2-gauge in from the Starter/ground, but then using 4-gauge to connect the batteries in negative parallel (and the 4-gauge from the Perko switch to the + battery terminals)
  • I plan to use the Optima Battery for accessories. If we call this battery #2 in the diagram I drew, do I connect my amp/accessory +/- wires to battery #2 just as I would without this new Perko? What's the best way to connect these wires with the new Perko in place?

Thanks!

 

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Getssum    10

I don't have any comments on the electrical side, but are the tanks you've removed the stock ones (450#) in the back?

 

Did you get them out intact or did you have to cut them?

 

I've got the same boat and was curious, but when I looked it looked like cutting was the only way to get them out!

 

Thanks,

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moto_209    0

Shows you are grounding the battery. Where are you gonna ground it. I did not ground mine just making sure I am not doing something wrong.

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srhoffman    0

Ok, First of all, you're two pictures are technically identical, you've drawn your negative connections to reflect the physical connections but that's identical to the technical drawing from perko.

 

Second you are doing parallel wiring (which is good and precisely what you want) as opposed to series wiring (which is what you mention doing to the negative wires)...parallel wiring doubles your amps and keeps voltage the same (minus to minus and plus to plus). Conversely, series wiring doubles your voltage but keeps amps the same (+ of bat A to - of bat B with + of B and - of A to power devices and complete circuit)...do that (series) in a car/boat and VERY bad things can happen!

 

I'll spare you the EE101 course regurgitation but suffice it to say the biggest factors you have to worry about in gauge selection is the distance your wires will run and the amps you intend to push through them. Typically 2AWG wire is rated for a nominal amount of amps (like 130A) with minimal loss over the distance you run (bigger wires, less loss and more amps can be run through over longer distances), can you run more amps through it? Yes! but there comes a point where too many amps in too high a gauge will generate enough heat to melt the wire jacket and cause the wire to become brittle. Ok, enough school...here are your answers:

 

 

- Will I have any issues with 1 battery draining/not recharging correctly with 2-gauge going into 1 and then having it piggy-back connected to battery 2's negative terminal (or should I use ALL 2-gauge)?

from - to - I would use the 2AWG just to be safe but you'd have to put one heck of a load on it for a long time to draw all 2000 amps that those combined blue tops will put out and damage the 4AWG...if you ran EVERY single accessory at max plus crank the starter continuously you might get there but I would hope some of the other failsafe's would kick in.

-Should I attempt to connect/splice the ground wire together, as the Perko manual shows? If so, what's the best connection to use here to ensure proper connections?

No...you have it right...that's just a technical schematic of wiring...means it doesn't matter which you connect (-) to first it has the same net effect.

-Does anyone see any issue with me running 2-gauge in from the Starter/ground, but then using 4-gauge to connect the batteries in negative parallel (and the 4-gauge from the Perko switch to the + battery terminals)

No issue per se, definitely not a problem on the (+) side and most likely will never cause you an issue on the (-) side.

-I plan to use the Optima Battery for accessories. If we call this battery #2 in the diagram I drew, do I connect my amp/accessory +/- wires to battery #2 just as I would without this new Perko? What's the best way to connect these wires with the new Perko in place?

connecting the (+) to the battery of choice will only draw power from that battery no matter where you ground it to (either battery (-) or the engine block for that matter)

 

The only thing you have to be cautious of is running the perko in "combined" mode (batt's 1 and 2 at the same time). Your stock battery is older and therefore not as efficient, but there's no telling what reading the alternator will get back from the combined good (new) and bad (just my way of saying old) battery and it may prematurely cut off the charging cycle leaving your bad battery dead and your good battery fully charged or worse yet...charging at the rate the bad battery reports which means overcharging and damaging your good battery. There are accessories for this that monitor both batteries and distribute the charge as required by each battery and when they're both good it stops the charging but running only one battery at a time should resolve this for free! (I over simplified how those devices work but I'm tired of typing and the Flyers have pretty much locked this one up! so I can go to bed)

 

Hope this helps...

Steve

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ReSession    165

Steve,

 

Thanks for the killer response!!! I can't thank you enough for helping to confirm everything as you did!

 

Moto_209, I'll be grounding to the engine block (just replacing the current wire that currently runs from there)

 

Getssum - I spent a good hour trying to figure out how to get that stock tank out with 2 of my friends and we figured the ONLY way to get it done intact would be to pull the engine! (by the way, if you have the Supreme V220, those tanks are not as big as they claim they to be! My tank was 63"x7"x20 along with 2 large holes in the middle...it's roughly 5 cubic feet of water @ 62.43 lbs which is about 220lbs if you have the "Sky" package - http://www.skisupreme.com/sky/)

 

Like my dad taught me, when something's stuck...grab the jigsaw! It took about 5 minutes to get it pulled...you can read my blog post with pics about the process @ http://www.NEWakesurf.com

 

Once I got it out, I realized how much more I'm gonna enjoy it now with the 750 lbs plumbed in there!

 

A few things to keep in mind...you'll need to replace the divider boards - I ordered a sheet of 'Starboard' material from West Marine for $139 and I'm going to cut/route that to fit, along with add some support bars behind them (as h20king has shown he's done in a post). Also, if you plan on plumbing a sac in there, you only need 1 vent hose coming off the bag, so you'll need to close off one of the vents on the side of the boat. I wanted to have custom sac created, but discovered that there's a lot of tapering that occurs and my original idea of 1000+ lb bag ended up being closer to 850...so I opted to go with the 750 sac I already had in the basement!)

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Getssum    10

Greg:

 

This is awesome news, and the best part about removing those tanks is that the engine will have SUCH better access.

 

I think you've inspired me to pull mine once I'm due for another impeller replacement.

 

Eric

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Wiggles    2

Ok, First of all, you're two pictures are technically identical, you've drawn your negative connections to reflect the physical connections but that's identical to the technical drawing from perko.

 

Second you are doing parallel wiring (which is good and precisely what you want) as opposed to series wiring (which is what you mention doing to the negative wires)...parallel wiring doubles your amps and keeps voltage the same (minus to minus and plus to plus). Conversely, series wiring doubles your voltage but keeps amps the same (+ of bat A to - of bat B with + of B and - of A to power devices and complete circuit)...do that (series) in a car/boat and VERY bad things can happen!

 

I'll spare you the EE101 course regurgitation but suffice it to say the biggest factors you have to worry about in gauge selection is the distance your wires will run and the amps you intend to push through them. Typically 2AWG wire is rated for a nominal amount of amps (like 130A) with minimal loss over the distance you run (bigger wires, less loss and more amps can be run through over longer distances), can you run more amps through it? Yes! but there comes a point where too many amps in too high a gauge will generate enough heat to melt the wire jacket and cause the wire to become brittle. Ok, enough school...here are your answers:

 

 

- Will I have any issues with 1 battery draining/not recharging correctly with 2-gauge going into 1 and then having it piggy-back connected to battery 2's negative terminal (or should I use ALL 2-gauge)?

from - to - I would use the 2AWG just to be safe but you'd have to put one heck of a load on it for a long time to draw all 2000 amps that those combined blue tops will put out and damage the 4AWG...if you ran EVERY single accessory at max plus crank the starter continuously you might get there but I would hope some of the other failsafe's would kick in.

-Should I attempt to connect/splice the ground wire together, as the Perko manual shows? If so, what's the best connection to use here to ensure proper connections?

No...you have it right...that's just a technical schematic of wiring...means it doesn't matter which you connect (-) to first it has the same net effect.

-Does anyone see any issue with me running 2-gauge in from the Starter/ground, but then using 4-gauge to connect the batteries in negative parallel (and the 4-gauge from the Perko switch to the + battery terminals)

No issue per se, definitely not a problem on the (+) side and most likely will never cause you an issue on the (-) side.

-I plan to use the Optima Battery for accessories. If we call this battery #2 in the diagram I drew, do I connect my amp/accessory +/- wires to battery #2 just as I would without this new Perko? What's the best way to connect these wires with the new Perko in place?

connecting the (+) to the battery of choice will only draw power from that battery no matter where you ground it to (either battery (-) or the engine block for that matter)

 

The only thing you have to be cautious of is running the perko in "combined" mode (batt's 1 and 2 at the same time). Your stock battery is older and therefore not as efficient, but there's no telling what reading the alternator will get back from the combined good (new) and bad (just my way of saying old) battery and it may prematurely cut off the charging cycle leaving your bad battery dead and your good battery fully charged or worse yet...charging at the rate the bad battery reports which means overcharging and damaging your good battery. There are accessories for this that monitor both batteries and distribute the charge as required by each battery and when they're both good it stops the charging but running only one battery at a time should resolve this for free! (I over simplified how those devices work but I'm tired of typing and the Flyers have pretty much locked this one up! so I can go to bed)

 

Hope this helps...

Steve

 

This explanation helped me out a lot as well thanks, I have couple more quick questions though.... with this setup will the boat start from either battery position, or just position 1? Would you hook your accessories up to the common post as well so that they would be turned on and off at the perko or do you guys hook that up to Batt 1 or 2 if not? and finally is it safe to mount the perko switch to the wall and have carpet behind or should it have something between carpet and the switch??

 

Wigs

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ReSession    165

Wigs, thanks for jumping in with those extra questions because I'd definitely like to know, too!

 

Also, I forgot to mention that currently the battery used for accessories is wired to a circuit breaker...I assumed that I would yank this out and replace it with the Perko, then just run all of the + wires that are running to this circuit breaker to the +/- posts on the new Optima battery?

 

Can someone confirm that you can just yank that out (as opposed to needing to splice it into the new system)?

 

Greg

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Wiggles    2

Wigs, thanks for jumping in with those extra questions because I'd definitely like to know, too!

 

Also, I forgot to mention that currently the battery used for accessories is wired to a circuit breaker...I assumed that I would yank this out and replace it with the Perko, then just run all of the + wires that are running to this circuit breaker to the +/- posts on the new Optima battery?

 

Can someone confirm that you can just yank that out (as opposed to needing to splice it into the new system)?

 

Greg

 

I'm going to still use my breaker in between the accessories and the battery or perko i think just for safety i think, plus its easier to reset then climbing underneath the helm to replace those small fuses if something happens...

Edited by Wiggles

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srhoffman    0

This explanation helped me out a lot as well thanks, I have couple more quick questions though.... with this setup will the boat start from either battery position, or just position 1? Would you hook your accessories up to the common post as well so that they would be turned on and off at the perko or do you guys hook that up to Batt 1 or 2 if not? and finally is it safe to mount the perko switch to the wall and have carpet behind or should it have something between carpet and the switch??

 

Wigs

 

The boat will start in position 1, 2 and 1+2 just fine (this of course assumes that there's sufficient charge in either battery 1 or 2 or the two of them combined).

 

I have mine wired such that all accessories are driven from the perko except the amps (not the whole stereo) which go directly to the non-starting battery. I also have two batteries of the same age with a conditioner so I run in 1+2 mode always (plenty of amps to keep stereo running through a start surge..so no cutting out mid song because it's time to make a fool of myself on the water again!).

 

Carpet is not a conductor of electricity BUT is a conductor of fire! It only takes one small spark from something that is (stray shard of metal or drops of water) so I would definitely get the carpet out of the way or use the construction adhesive others have mentioned to make a mounting block on (I'm using a painted piece of 3/4" plywood).

 

Also, there was a misconception from earlier that the engine block is the ground...nope! The engine block is in the back of the boat and the ground is secretly lurking more towards center under your flip up observers seat cleverly disguised as the negative battery terminal. The reason(s) you run ground to the battery is that it's A) a convenient place at the back of the boat to tie other grounds into without making another "home run" to the battery and B ) it "energizes" the metal of the block to aid in corrosion prevention and C) since lightning is looking for the shortest path to ground through the most conductive object it can find...engineers decided the block was better then you...ok so that doesn't happen often so the other benefit is for static discharge. There are others but I don't want a reputation for writing technical books on this site.

 

The other question about the breaker...the perko is ONLY a selector switch, it will provide you NO surge protection while a breaker will...leave the breaker where it is and just tie it in off the "combined" post on the perko (aka the one you'll have hooked your 2AWG red wire to)!

 

Hope this helps!

 

Steve

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ReSession    165

Steve, thanks for the advice! That makes sense and looks like I can just drill in some holes to the right of the circuit breaker to install the Perko, finally stopped raining here in VT and the wires & Perko switch are due to arrive tomorrow. Hoping to get this all installed over the weekend, along with pics!

 

Bojik, the Perko switch I'm talking about can be found here at Overton's

 

Greg

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Bojik    0

This is the blue sea switch and reley at Overtons;

Blue Sea at Overtons

Here is the manual for the blue sea S&R;

Manual

I like the fact that this is a one package deal but are there better options?

It looks to me that this takes a lot of the guess work out of a second battery, install and maintance. But I have learned that when somthing is too easy there is always a catch.

Edited by Bojik

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Wiggles    2

I bought this one http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/hot_feed/D-539.PDF I liked the option that it gave me the option to lock it when I keep the boat at the marina. As for the Isolator part i just make sure when I'm running the boat surfing and wakeboarding, I always had the switch in combined 1 + 2 position and never had an issue last season with mine. Might be just one more thing to break in a few years...

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srhoffman    0

Is this the correct switch and relay?Blue Sea Systems

 

That will do what you want...if what you want is what I think (place to wire accessories separate from starting)...

 

the purpose of the relay is to take two batteries and use them for starting...BUT if the combination of the two batteries is not sufficient amps to start the boat, it will trigger the relay to remove the accessories from the current draw on start and when the alternator takes over and suppliments the amps the batteries didn't have, will re-enable the accessories. If you have a newer car, when you turn the key forward to start, you may notice the stereo and headlights shut off then come right back on after starting...the purpose is the inital drop in available amps triggers the relay to isolate the accessories from the mix leaving all the amps for the starting. I don't know about your boat but mine already has the relay built in (07 Avy C4) and when I stepped up to a two battery config with the switch on 1+2 I

have enough amps that the relay never opens to disable the accessories so the stereo keeps on playing during starting.

 

What I am not sure about on that combo unit is it appears to only have a position 1 and position 1+2...but not a position 2? If I make it to Overtons this weekend I'll see if they have it in stock and look...but the picture or description doesn't show it. If your batteries are of two different ages then being able to charge them independantly is needed without more (expensive) equipment.

 

If you're looking for an automatic charging isolator/integrator (that more expensive equipment I just mentioned)...that's not it!

 

Steve

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srhoffman    0

By the way, Bojik, next time you pass through Dillon, please apologize to the town for me as I "cheated" on it this year. For the past 10 years we've gone to Dillon to enjoy Colorado's finest snowboarding and decided to mix it up and head to SLC this year...and here I sit back east recovering from a torn MCL and will be the designated driver on the water for at least three more weeks!! :realmad:

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Bojik    0

Funny you say that, I am driving past there in about an hour.

Hope the MCL heals soon.

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ReSession    165

Project COMPLETE, AND I didn't have to call the fire department!!! :thumbsup:

 

I mounted the Perko to the front wall of the engine compartment, and was able to use my stock 2 gauge wire running from the starter/ground. Originally, I was thinking I'd mount it somewhere in the starboard locker, but this spot worked out much better!

 

First, I cut out a block of 1/2" plastic board (not sure *what* is the official name of this stuff, but I cut it from the floor that was covering my stock ballast tank, which I removed under a different post!). I pulled off the carpet that was spray-glued to it, then sanded and rounded the edges. I shot the top/sides with black spray paint for a better look (was white).

 

Then, I centered the Perko & drilled 4 holes - I used 4 stainless steel bolts running from the backside of the block, lined up the bolts and mounted the Perko to the block, AFTER I wired everything to it. Once all the wires were connected, I mounted the block to the backside of the wall.

 

The ONLY issue I encountered was that the accessories continued to operate even with the Perko in the OFF position. So, I came back to this thread and read Steve's last line...

 

The other question about the breaker...the perko is ONLY a selector switch, it will provide you NO surge protection while a breaker will...leave the breaker where it is and just tie it in off the "combined" post on the perko (aka the one you'll have hooked your 2AWG red wire to)!

 

Needless to say, I forgot to follow this previous advice and once I disconnected the breaker from battery #2 and wired it directly to the combined post on the Perko, we were all set!

 

Thanks again Steve (and others) - this is an amazing forum and really appreciate all the advice! Anyone have any questions, please let me know?

 

*Disclaimer - don't make fun of my battery wires looking like the plug of the tree on "Christmas Story"...the new Optima is on it's way and I'm making a custom battery cover today! You'll see battery #1 wired for starting, and all the other accessories wired to #2 (future Optima) battery.

 

Greg

 

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h20king    794

If you want to clean up the wires for the stereo run a single power line from the common lug on the perco switch to a distribution block then run power to the amps from the distribution block you have way to many power leads coming off the battery.................H

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    • Edward  »  lamb80782

      I see Lamb80782 had the same remove the driver seat as I am having.
      I didn't see the ulitmate solution.  I think removing "stop" would be the solution but am unable to see very well under the seat.  Has anyone come up with the solution?
      I also am reoving to have re-uphostered.  Itried removing the black access cover but it is very tight under there and not enough room for a regular wrench.  May try a 1/4 rachet drive.
      https://photos.app.goo.gl/S37erPn8an8fDkHBA of seat.
      · 0 replies
    • Smcclellan  »  InfinitySurf

      Good morning. I saw you talked about replacing the ram fill valves. I have a 2021 ri237 with a broken valve   It’s under warranty but dealer is going to be very slow to fix it.  Which wiring harness do I need to make sure I have  when I order off of Amazon.  Thank you scott 
      · 0 replies
    • Benji  »  Dreamer

      Roswell Bimini for sale. New condition. It’s off of a new ri245. Great low price! Please reply to chat!
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      · 1 reply
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