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LakeSurfer    10

For you ballast pros, I am finally going to get around to upgrading my ballast. Originally, I was thinking about adding two more fill/empty Mayfair 1000 aerator pumps. Now I am thinking about adding Johnson reversible pumps instead (dont think I want the extra hoses in my lockers. So here are my questions:

 

1. can the 3/4' thru hull already in the boat handle 2 Johnson pumps and current ballast puppy. Keep in mind that 99% of the time, I will only be running one of the Johnson pumps and the current ballast puppy.

 

2. I was thinking about leaving the current system (ballast puppy with 3 sprinkler valves) as is and then adding the two Johnson pumps. Can I "wire" the ballast puppy/sprinkler valves and the Johnson pumps so that I could run them both at the same time (ex: hit the center fill and port fill and it runs the ballast puppy and center/port sprinkler valve as well as the port Johnson pump. In this scenario the port rocker switch would have to turn on the ballast puppy, port sprinkler valve and port Johnson pump).

 

As you know, I really have no knowledge of wiring anything. So sorry if the questions are stupid :welcome:

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Foiler    1

You should have a 1 inch thru hull now??? If I were you, I would just leave that one alone and hooked up like it is and just ad a new thru hull for the 2 Johnson pumps. A 1 inch should feed them but when you start adding fittings and bends and stuff it starts reducing the flow so I would go a little bigger and maybe do a 1 1/2 to feed the two Johnsons and then you could just copy Bigcats set up. There are a lot of ways to do it but I guess it depends a lot on how you are going to use your boat. Do you frequently fill just one side or switch sides all the time. I am going to set mine up where I can fill both sides but it is going to be optimized at filling just the regular side and if I was to use both sides regularly then I would probably do things way differently.

 

It can be wired to do anything you want and again will be completely different if you use sprinkler valves or not. Using sprinkler valves will require you to use the pump for IN only and rely on the Mayfair pumps for the OUT. Don't use the sprinklers and then you can reverse the pumps and use them for in and out. If you use the pumps for in and out then you would use a double pole, double throw switch like your Lenco has that actually just changes the polarity when switching between in and out instead of turning different pumps on like it is set up now.

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Foiler    1

Just re-read your wiring post. It would be easy to make it do what you want and turn on the original pump and the Johnson pump and then turn on the Mayfair pump to pump it out. If you want the Johnson pump to pump out as well using the same switch then you could probably do it but you would have to find a special polarity switching relay or leave the current set up alone and just ad one more port switch that operates Just the Johnson and it would be the double pole double throw switch that would reverse the pump.

 

Maybe you could leave your current set up in there to fill the starboard side and the center tank and use the two Johnsons on there own thru hull to fill just the port bag and use them to fill and empty just like bigcat did on his custom sack. I think I like his set up.

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Bigcatpt    408

Leave your current center set up alone.

 

Put in a new thru-hull in the floor. Do a 1 1/4" thru hull to feed the 2 johnson pumps. There will be plenty of flow there.

 

Design it so that both Johnson pumps with fill either the port side or starboard side custom sacs. Or for wakeboarding one pump to each side.

 

Design it without sprinkler valves even if it means you need one or two manual ball valves to direct the flow to either port side, starboard side, or both.

 

Design it so that you can fill one side from the other side so you can switch from port to starboard without having to completely empty and refill.

 

Run your overflows/vents to the other side of the boat with one way valves.

 

Be sure to plan in at least 1 auxiliary fill hose into the system for filling other sac (back seat, transom sac, bow, etc)

 

Do this and you will have a bitchin, trouble free (no sprinkler valves), system!!! :welcome: :welcome:

Edited by Bigcatpt

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LakeSurfer    10
Leave your current center set up alone.

 

Put in a new thru-hull in the floor. Do a 1 1/4" thru hull to feed the 2 johnson pumps. There will be plenty of flow there.

 

Design it so that both Johnson pumps with fill either the port side or starboard side custom sacs. Or for wakeboarding one pump to each side.

 

Design it without sprinkler valves even if it means you need one or two manual ball valves to direct the flow to either port side, starboard side, or both.

 

Design it so that you can fill one side from the other side so you can switch from port to starboard without having to completely empty and refill.

 

Run your overflows/vents to the other side of the boat with one way valves.

 

Be sure to plan in at least 1 auxiliary fill hose into the system for filling other sac (back seat, transom sac, bow, etc)

 

Do this and you will have a bitchin, trouble free (no sprinkler valves), system!!! :welcome: :welcome:

 

This is exactly what I want! Thanks Guys.

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Lakesurfer - So my system, which you have seen, I run the stock Intake. I think it is an inch. I run three Ballast Puppies from it with no flow issues. Granted usually I run just two at one time.

 

Like Bigactpt said:

 

1. leave the center alone.

2. design (as I did) so you can cross over pumps to use two to fill one sac.

3. cross vent but that may not be needed if you use check valves

 

You have most of the plumbing in place, minus the pumps and a few parts. You'll need to figure out if you want to pump out the bottom as I do and Bigcatpt does or out the side. That will impact what pumps and how many you buy.

 

I'd be happy to help you do it some Saturday but I have no clue about the sprinkler system. But what I think you are asking for could be done: port and center switch to fill at the same time. My thinking here is to leave the center alone and wire the port directly from the switch to the pump.

 

T

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LakeSurfer    10

Ok, so here is what I have settled on

 

I am going to leave the current system in place and let it run the center tank and two new 260lbs sacs I am going to have installed on each side in the bow. Then I am going to add two Johnson pumps for the Avy sacs like Bigcat/Treavor have done (can use both to fill either sac by turning a manual valve). Now I just need the $ :welcome: If funds do show up, I will just add the two Johnson pumps and run the center tank off of the ballast puppy. Either way, it should work great.

 

Question:

1. Can I run this off of the current thru hull or do I need to add one more?

2. Will both pumps empty the sac as well or can you only use one pump to empty the sac under this scenario? I have been on Treavor's boat and can not remember how his empty worked.

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Ok, so here is what I have settled on

 

I am going to leave the current system in place and let it run the center tank and two new 260lbs sacs I am going to have installed on each side in the bow. Then I am going to add two Johnson pumps for the Avy sacs like Bigcat/Treavor have done (can use both to fill either sac by turning a manual valve). Now I just need the $ :air_kiss: If funds do show up, I will just add the two Johnson pumps and run the center tank off of the ballast puppy. Either way, it should work great.

 

Question:

1. Can I run this off of the current thru hull or do I need to add one more?

2. Will both pumps empty the sac as well or can you only use one pump to empty the sac under this scenario? I have been on Treavor's boat and can not remember how his empty worked.

 

 

You can run that system with the current intake in the bottom. e.g. I run three ballast puppies off the stock intake. I investigated the flow rates before I did my install and I do recall there was enough flow to support two pumps running at the same time with no issue...if not all three.

 

I use the ballast puppies to fill and empty. The empty goes back out the bottom; very easy to use but you have to watch the draining so you don't run the pump dry. Not a big deal, just have to get used to it. In essence I have a center, port, and starboard ballast puppies. The port fills and drains my port sac; one pump, one switch. The same set up is on the starboard side. Now, I have the starboard pump set with a manual crossover so I can use two pumps to fill the 1100# jumbo sac which cuts the fill time in half to about 8 minutes.

 

 

Next time we surf my boat I'll show you in detail.

 

T

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h20king    794

yep a one inch hole will flow 60 gallons per.minuet............H

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Foiler    1
yep a one inch hole will flow 60 gallons per.minuet............H

 

I hate to say it but I don't think this will be true and I really don't think it will apply to the current 1 inch thru hull. I know that we have way different opinions when it comes to flow rates and pressure and size.

 

Maybe if you had super high pressure water line with a 1 inch hole in it then you might get some crazy flow number like that but that 1 inch thru hull isn't going to do that.

 

I have 3 Tsunami pumps running off of my original 1 inch thru hull and I think it is holding them back especailly considering that you can take a portable Tsunami, throw it in the water, turn it on without being connected to a bag and it has a pretty solid flow out of the 1 1/8" hose and when someone actually flow tested the Tsunami it didn't even come close to putting out the 1100 gallons per minute. Since it has such a solid stream coming out then how could a smaller hose with even smaller diameter fittings not reduce the flow trying to supply a water intake for 3 pumps?

 

 

To make a long story short, that one inch thru-hull isn't going to flow anywhere near 60 gallons per minute. That is one gallon per second and I just don't think that is going to happen. When you start adding connections and hose that number goes way down, pressure will also affect it.

 

Don't believe it, here is a good test: Close your ball valve and take the 1 inch hose off of the pump and install it on the bottom of one of your bags and fill it about 3/4 full so there is plenty of volume and no pressure on it (like the water you are sucking in). Now place a 5 gallon bucket under the boat and open the ball valve. If it flowed 60 gallons per minute then the 5 gallon bucket would be full in 5 seconds. I feel very confident that it will not be anywhere near that time.

 

Like I said before, I would just leave the original thru-hull alone and buy a new one to feed just the 2 Johnsons. That way you can run all the pumps at once and have the highest flow rate possible and you won't be doing what I am doing and that is going in there and changing it back like it was and adding another thru-hull.

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Bigcatpt    408
Like I said before, I would just leave the original thru-hull alone and buy a new one to feed just the 2 Johnsons. That way you can run all the pumps at once and have the highest flow rate possible and you won't be doing what I am doing and that is going in there and changing it back like it was and adding another thru-hull.

 

^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :air_kiss::thumbsup:

 

Don't skimp on adding a additional thru hull and screw up your kick A$$ system!

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LakeSurfer    10

So I think I am going to install a completely automated system.

 

1. 2 Johnson Reversible pumps (4 total) on each Avy sac. The 2 starboard pumps will be on the current 1" thru hole with ballast puppy and the 2 port pumps will be on a new 1.25 inch thru hole. I figure this will allow me to fill/empty Avy sac in 5-6 minutes. The reason I am putting the ballast puppy and 2 starboard pumps together is because I surf the port side 99% of the time and would not use the starboard pumps that often.

 

2. Add two 260lbs bow ballast bags and fill with the current sprinkler valve system (will need to drill empty/overflow holes on both sides).

 

3. Run Avy sac overflow to opposite side

 

I am guessing that I can fill the 1,200lbs Avy sac, 250bls center tank and 260lbs bow bag in about 5-6 min.

 

Thanks for everybody's help.

Edited by LakeSurfer

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h20king    794

I am going to keep this short as I have been over this before but foiler is wrong and his test will not work to confirm flow.A one inch hole will flow 60gpm the water is fed through the hole creating pressure from the displacement of the boat when draining with a one inch hole only gravity feeds so his test wont work.I am running two jabscos off a one one inch hole fill time is the same weather I am filling one sack or two does not matter.I design and install Peiping systems for a living so believe who you want.............H

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Bigcatpt    408
So I think I am going to install a completely automated system.

 

1. 2 Johnson Reversible pumps (4 total) on each Avy sac. The 2 starboard pumps will be on the current 1" thru hole with ballast puppy and the 2 port pumps will be on a new 1.25 inch thru hole. I figure this will allow me to fill/empty Avy sac in 5-6 minutes. The reason I am putting the ballast puppy and 2 starboard pumps together is because I surf the port side 99% of the time and would not use the starboard pumps that often.

 

2. Add two 260lbs bow ballast bags and fill with the current sprinkler valve system (will need to drill empty/overflow holes on both sides).

 

3. Run Avy sac overflow to opposite side

 

I am guessing that I can fill the 1,200lbs Avy sac, 250bls center tank and 260lbs bow bag in about 5-6 min.

 

Thanks for everybody's help.

 

Money, money, money, money!!!! That would be an awesome system but the pumps are $200 each. I would not waste $400 on the starboard side that you are only going to use occasionally for those dang darksiders (I'm gonna catch hell for that comment)!!! Thats a lot of extra coin. 2 pumps will really be sufficient to fill one side or the other. But if your made of money then go with 4 pumps!!!

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h20king    794

big one of my off season mod's will be to add a tee and valves so I can use both pumps to fill I'm hoping it cuts my fill time from 10 min. to five............H

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LakeSurfer    10
I am going to keep this short as I have been over this before but foiler is wrong and his test will not work to confirm flow.A one inch hole will flow 60gpm the water is fed through the hole creating pressure from the displacement of the boat when draining with a one inch hole only gravity feeds so his test wont work.I am running two jabscos off a one one inch hole fill time is the same weather I am filling one sack or two does not matter.I design and install Peiping systems for a living so believe who you want.............H

 

H - the reason I am going to run a new thu-hull is because I am still going to add a manual valve that would allow me to run all 4 pumps to one sac if I wanted to. If I was only buying 2 pumps, I would not run a new thru-hull. BTW, the guys at Wake Makers think that a 1" thru-hull is really good for about 35 gpm by the time you add Bronze Thru-Hull Intake and all other ballast parts. They also suggest you add the extra thru-hull to make sure the pumps get plenty of water so you dont burn them out.

 

In any event, should be good to go when I get it done.

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LakeSurfer    10
Money, money, money, money!!!! That would be an awesome system but the pumps are $200 each. I would not waste $400 on the starboard side that you are only going to use occasionally for those dang darksiders (I'm gonna catch hell for that comment)!!! Thats a lot of extra coin. 2 pumps will really be sufficient to fill one side or the other. But if your made of money then go with 4 pumps!!!

 

Between all of the surf boards, board racks, LEDs, tower lights, WS stereo, etc, I am already so pregnant when it comes to this boat I figure whats another $400 to get it exactly the way I want it. Reality is, new boats are sooooo expensive, the more I like this one the longer I will keep it and that will save me a lot more than $400.

 

One more question: can I run 4 of the Johnson pumps at one time or will I blow every fuse in the boat?

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Bigcatpt    408
Between all of the surf boards, board racks, LEDs, tower lights, WS stereo, etc, I am already so pregnant when it comes to this boat I figure whats another $400 to get it exactly the way I want it. Reality is, new boats are sooooo expensive, the more I like this one the longer I will keep it and that will save me a lot more than $400.

 

One more question: can I run 4 of the Johnson pumps at one time or will I blow every fuse in the boat?

 

Good point! Its all expensive!!!

 

Not sure on the power draw of 4 pumps? Where are the sparkeys around here? Dura?

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Foiler    1

I am going to keep this short as I have been over this before but foiler is wrong and his test will not work to confirm flow.A one inch hole will flow 60gpm the water is fed through the hole creating pressure from the displacement of the boat when draining with a one inch hole only gravity feeds so his test wont work.I am running two jabscos off a one one inch hole fill time is the same weather I am filling one sack or two does not matter.I design and install Peiping systems for a living so believe who you want.............H

Sorry man, I am not buying it. I know you have been over this before and that is when I started becoming a non believer. Maybe you are refering to this thread:

 

http://www.centurioncrew.com/Ballast-Pump-...ressure+ballast

 

In that thread you said: "When you reduce from one inch to 3/4 you do not lose gph what happens is vellocity is increased.think of it like a garden hose when you put on a nozzle and turn on the water it seams as if the presure was increased when actually presure stays the same but speed is increased. you can check for yourself turn on the hose and time how long it takes to fill a bucket then repeat with a nozzle fill time will be the same."

 

After reading that I realized that designing piping systems has nothing to do with designing ballast systems and according to your statement he could just use a 3/4 inch thru-hull and it would be just as good??

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the 1 inch thru-hull wouldn't work. What I am saying is it will not flow 60 GPM. I tried to run 3 pumps off of mine and I don't think it is working as good as it should. Now if Lakesurfer was going to run just 2- 9gpm ballast pumps like yours then I would say just run them both off of the 1 inch thru-hull but 3 pumps would be pushing it. I don't think it would work as well and it would just be easier to leave the original set up alone and ad another thru-hull. That is what I wish I would have done because I used my original thru-hull and now have to go through the trouble of putting it back like it was and adding another thru-hull. Now possibly using the impeller pumps which actually have some suction then you could be better off but Aerator pumps (which I have) have to be mounted below the waterline and only get fed by the pressure you speak of. I know it isn't much and if the pumps are very close to the waterline then I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually less than gravity.

 

And saying I was wrong about there being pressure caused by the displacement of the hull. Sorry that is not true, that is only true when the pump is mounted at the hole, below the waterline. Where the ballast puppies are installed from the factory which appears to be well above the waterline, there is no pressure there since it is so high. I haven't actually tried it but I am sure you could take the hose off and no water would come out. When you start lowering the hose opening below the waterline then water would start coming out.

 

I don't really want to start a pissing contest but I also don't want people to read 60 gpm and design a system off of the original thru-hull that just doesn't work as well as it should especially someone who pays for all of the labor that is done on their boat.

 

It wouldn't be to hard to wire it to run all 4 pumps but those dang impeller pumps can pull a lot of amps when you first turn them on. You just have to make sure you run large enough wire to them and use relays if your amp draw is more than the switch rating. I would have to look it up but I would guess that one stock style switch could just barely handle the amp draw of one pump.

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h20king    794

Bro I'm not going to argue with you Lake does pay for all his labor but sounded like it was something him and T were going to do together so my thinking was to keep it simple you don't have to believe. your cartridge pumps must be mounted below the water line because the are not self priming and water seeks it's own level.Last time I don't care what wake makers or you think a one inch hole will flow 60gpm I did not figure this out some guy much smarter than me figured it out and put it in text books .I would never run more than two pumps off of one through hole not because of flow but because it is next to impossible to obtain a factory looking system when you have an octopus coming off of one line.Last lets revisit velocity you must have miss understood.when you reduce the line size velocity increases for instance I ran all one inch line except for the last six inches before the overboard so the factory 3/4 over boards could be reused no flow was lost my sacks empty as fast as they fill and my fill lines are one inch all the way.but when emptying the water shoots out about 2 feet.to increase velocity you must go from larger to smaller not the other way around.You are correct about the factory switch and amp draw I modified the switch that came with the new pumps to accept the factory switch covers.Maybe Packrat wile chime in he had a chance to crawl all over my boat and check out all my mods which I must add all look factory if not better and all work as designed I would never steer one of the crew in the wrong direction.......H

Edited by h20king

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    • Edward  »  lamb80782

      I see Lamb80782 had the same remove the driver seat as I am having.
      I didn't see the ulitmate solution.  I think removing "stop" would be the solution but am unable to see very well under the seat.  Has anyone come up with the solution?
      I also am reoving to have re-uphostered.  Itried removing the black access cover but it is very tight under there and not enough room for a regular wrench.  May try a 1/4 rachet drive.
      https://photos.app.goo.gl/S37erPn8an8fDkHBA of seat.
      · 0 replies
    • Smcclellan  »  InfinitySurf

      Good morning. I saw you talked about replacing the ram fill valves. I have a 2021 ri237 with a broken valve   It’s under warranty but dealer is going to be very slow to fix it.  Which wiring harness do I need to make sure I have  when I order off of Amazon.  Thank you scott 
      · 0 replies
    • Benji  »  Dreamer

      Roswell Bimini for sale. New condition. It’s off of a new ri245. Great low price! Please reply to chat!
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      · 1 reply
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