Newby

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Howdy, 

Very new to this boat world. Wife & were planning on getting a poonton to relax/chill out on the water. This past summer, we ended up getting onto a friend's MB23 and we're instantly hooked. I tried wake surfing for the first time and that's it...need a wake boat. 

 

The reason I have come here is because we have our eyes set on a 2017 238...loaded with the wake plates/ballast etc. My only concern is do we really need to spend that much money on a boat to surf, or can an older boat do the trick? I am not one to cut cost, but I also don't need the latest & greatest if the previous models can deliver what I am looking for. 

 

Is there a point where a boat is just too old for wake surfing? Is there a need for the newer tech or is it simply a "bonus" to have them. 

 

Here are the ones we have our eyes on...

 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-powerboat-motorboat/kelowna/2011-centurion-enzo-sv230/1628781978

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/466232535441327/

 

https://www.extremeboatsports.com/Pre-owned-Inventory-2017-Supreme-Boats-Boat-S238-Extreme-Boat-Sports-12784062

 

Any help, guidance would be greatly appreciated...I am totally open to all suggestions. 

[Troy. R 198]

All 3 of those boats are capable of throwing a really good surf wave. All 3 also require more ballast than they come with from the factory. They might already have it though.
The S238 is obviously the nicest of the 3, but $ talks.
I personally would shy away from the S211 just because they are a little small for my liking. If you get much more than a single family in there it gets tight.
In terms of your broader question, there are older boats that can throw incredible surf waves. The Enzo was the best surf boat on the market for many years. The old Avalanches could throw a really high level wave as well when properly weighted. The 2 big advantages of the newer boats with the surf tabs is that you can switch sides much quicker and they have taller freeboard. With the older boats, you have to drain all of the ballast from one side and fill the other to switch from regular to goofy or vice versa. Additionally, on the older boats because you slam them one one side, they lean pretty hard and it can get a little sketchy in choppy water. On my old Avalanche we used to have the surf side rub rail under water. On my ZS232, when surf loaded you can't even touch the water when reaching over the side.

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11 hours ago, Troy. R said:

All 3 of those boats are capable of throwing a really good surf wave. All 3 also require more ballast than they come with from the factory. They might already have it though.
The S238 is obviously the nicest of the 3, but $ talks.
I personally would shy away from the S211 just because they are a little small for my liking. If you get much more than a single family in there it gets tight.
In terms of your broader question, there are older boats that can throw incredible surf waves. The Enzo was the best surf boat on the market for many years. The old Avalanches could throw a really high level wave as well when properly weighted. The 2 big advantages of the newer boats with the surf tabs is that you can switch sides much quicker and they have taller freeboard. With the older boats, you have to drain all of the ballast from one side and fill the other to switch from regular to goofy or vice versa. Additionally, on the older boats because you slam them one one side, they lean pretty hard and it can get a little sketchy in choppy water. On my old Avalanche we used to have the surf side rub rail under water. On my ZS232, when surf loaded you can't even touch the water when reaching over the side.

Thanks for that Troy. I think I agree with you on keeping with at least 23feet. So the Enzo is going to be the "old" system of doing things then? What is it that I want to look for with the newer boats that make for a quick & easy set up for surfing? I found this boat as well today but not too familiar with the brand and if it's any good....has the right motor tho:

https://www.docksidemarine.com/inventory/certified-used-2018-sanger-v237-wakeboard-boat-sanmx229j718/

And also this boat, but I think it may be the "old" surf system you are talking about:

https://www.docksidemarine.com/inventory/certified-used-2012-malibu-247-lsv-wakeboard-boat-mb2w5089k112/

[Troy. R 198]

Correct. With the Enzo, you would have to drain the ballast from one side and fill the other when switching riders from reg to goofy or vice versa. I should also note that Enzos have a phenomenal reg wave, but the goofy wave is notoriously washy and not nearly as good as the reg side. If I were a goofy rider, I would shy away from the Enzo for that reason. It "can" be cleaned up, but takes some work and tweaking.
The newer boats have a surf system of some sort that makes them easy to switch sides. For example, Centurion/Supreme (along with many other manufacturers) use surf tabs. On the Supremes you posted above, these are the tabs on the L/R corners. Malibu/Axis uses surfgate which is a tab that pushes out from the side of the swim platform area.

I am familiar with Sanger as a brand. They're made in Central California about an hour south of where Centurions are made. They're a small builder comparatively. Obviously they have less tech with no display etc. I have no idea what you could expect out of the surf wave on a newer V237.

The malibu is pre-surfgate, so it would be similar to the Enzo in that you would have to drain ballast from one side and fill the other to switch surf sides.

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3 hours ago, Troy. R said:

Correct. With the Enzo, you would have to drain the ballast from one side and fill the other when switching riders from reg to goofy or vice versa. I should also note that Enzos have a phenomenal reg wave, but the goofy wave is notoriously washy and not nearly as good as the reg side. If I were a goofy rider, I would shy away from the Enzo for that reason. It "can" be cleaned up, but takes some work and tweaking.
The newer boats have a surf system of some sort that makes them easy to switch sides. For example, Centurion/Supreme (along with many other manufacturers) use surf tabs. On the Supremes you posted above, these are the tabs on the L/R corners. Malibu/Axis uses surfgate which is a tab that pushes out from the side of the swim platform area.

I am familiar with Sanger as a brand. They're made in Central California about an hour south of where Centurions are made. They're a small builder comparatively. Obviously they have less tech with no display etc. I have no idea what you could expect out of the surf wave on a newer V237.

The malibu is pre-surfgate, so it would be similar to the Enzo in that you would have to drain ballast from one side and fill the other to switch surf sides.

So I guess with this info, me being a newbie, I don't want to mess with the older systems. I like the "flip a switch and make it happen". 

The Sanger has a video on YT demonstrating their wake...me not knowing a thing, how would you rate this wake? 

The Sanger and the Supreme 238 are relatively the same price where I am located. The sanger is about $10k less. If you could pick between either or, what would you buy? 

 

Thanks Troy

[Troy. R 198]

That Sanger wave doesn't look bad at all. I'd certainly want to know what the ballast set up was and test it before pulling the trigger. I'm sure it is not stock ballast.

All things being equal, if I had to choose between the 2, I'd still go Supreme. Obviously with a $10K price gap, all things are not equal. That said, I believe the Supreme will hold it's value better in the long term. Also, not knocking Sanger build quality or R&D, but I am very comfortable with the R&D that goes into Supreme and the build quality. That 2017 was designed by the same people and built at the same factory as the Centurions. Out of curiosity, how much more would a used 2019-ish Supreme ZS232 cost? That would be a game changer if it's in your budget. Down here they go for about $90-$100K (US).

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34 minutes ago, Troy. R said:

That Sanger wave doesn't look bad at all. I'd certainly want to know what the ballast set up was and test it before pulling the trigger. I'm sure it is not stock ballast.

All things being equal, if I had to choose between the 2, I'd still go Supreme. Obviously with a $10K price gap, all things are not equal. That said, I believe the Supreme will hold it's value better in the long term. Also, not knocking Sanger build quality or R&D, but I am very comfortable with the R&D that goes into Supreme and the build quality. That 2017 was designed by the same people and built at the same factory as the Centurions. Out of curiosity, how much more would a used 2019-ish Supreme ZS232 cost? That would be a game changer if it's in your budget. Down here they go for about $90-$100K (US).

I have yet to find a ZS Supreme for sale up here, and with the dollar exchange, that would push waaaay over budget for me. 

I agree with you on the Sanger...will move on from that boat. I did see a new listing yesterday on a 2016 238:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/8107416379330167/

It does have the 5.7 & not the 6.0 - which from what I have read isn't a major game changer. It also looks like he's upgraded the ballast to 3k lbs. I don't mind adding bigger ballast/weight if need be down the road. 

I think this might be a great boat to get into for what I am looking forward to doing...your thoughts Troy? 

[Troy. R 198]

2 hours ago, fastsoup said:

I have yet to find a ZS Supreme for sale up here, and with the dollar exchange, that would push waaaay over budget for me. 

I agree with you on the Sanger...will move on from that boat. I did see a new listing yesterday on a 2016 238:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/8107416379330167/

It does have the 5.7 & not the 6.0 - which from what I have read isn't a major game changer. It also looks like he's upgraded the ballast to 3k lbs. I don't mind adding bigger ballast/weight if need be down the road. 

I think this might be a great boat to get into for what I am looking forward to doing...your thoughts Troy? 

It looks like both of the S238s have the 5.7L. My understanding is with the 1.72:1 gear ratio the smaller engine is not an issue.
I guess the big question is, what is the price difference on the two?
With the '17 you get the newer dash with the display (which includes timed ballast that will automatically shut off pumps when full/empty), the newer Octo Tower, the newer/upgraded stinger wake plate (notice the wings on the center plate of the '17), and a new engine with only 8hrs on it.

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5 hours ago, Troy. R said:

It looks like both of the S238s have the 5.7L. My understanding is with the 1.72:1 gear ratio the smaller engine is not an issue.
I guess the big question is, what is the price difference on the two?
With the '17 you get the newer dash with the display (which includes timed ballast that will automatically shut off pumps when full/empty), the newer Octo Tower, the newer/upgraded stinger wake plate (notice the wings on the center plate of the '17), and a new engine with only 8hrs on it.

Oh...I thought the 2017 had the PCM 409.

The 2017 is currently under a deal, and I would ideally like to pick up the 2016 for $85k. So $20k difference. 

Are the 2016 pumps manual? I did notice that...are those items extremely significant upgrades? If they are, then I can always wait...that 2016 came up yesterday. 

[Troy. R 198]

It said EX3 Crusader engine, which I believe is the 5.7L, but I could be wrong.

The pumps for the ‘16 will be on switches. Not a big deal. You would just have to switch ON/OFF to start/stop pumps as needed.

I don’t have a ton of experience with the S238, so I’m not sure what the best surf setup will be. I do know it is capable of throwing a legit wave though.

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4 minutes ago, Troy. R said:

It said EX3 Crusader engine, which I believe is the 5.7L, but I could be wrong.

The pumps for the ‘16 will be on switches. Not a big deal. You would just have to switch ON/OFF to start/stop pumps as needed.

I don’t have a ton of experience with the S238, so I’m not sure what the best surf setup will be. I do know it is capable of throwing a legit wave though.

Ok so that's not too bad...and I'm sure the plate can be upgraded if need be. 

Thanks for all the guidance Troy. I'm going to take a look at the blue one this evening. 

[Troy. R 198]

Nice!

im sure the current owner can get you setup with the proper surf setup.