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On 12/2/2020 at 7:31 PM, fjohnp said:

I'd maybe look around to see what system would have been added at the factory for that year to see what options would have been available for additional ballast.  I'm not sure if at that point they would have used either  a series of 3 solenoids to distribute water from your existing pump (like mine) or if it had 3 separate pumps for each ballast zone.  With that info, it wouldn't surprise me that the wiring is there for the switches, solenoids, etc  as they could have used a standard wiring harness for that model of boats at the time.  They could just add or subtract depending on the options chosen by the dealer/buyer.  I've seen this before with past vehicles where the trailer wiring was in place, but tucked away and all I had to do was add some fuses and dig the wires out.

I'd definitely have a look under that panel below the throttle to see if there's any unused connectors ready for switches, look at the fuse block under the helm to see if there's wiring to it for the ballast zones (my fuse block was labeled), and also check at the back of the lockers  on each side of your engine to see if there's wires run there (my wires run along with other wires kinda behind/above the rub rail) that would be used to power the drain pumps (like the yellow one shown above).  If you do have the wiring in place, it may just take some time trace what's what using a volt meter and then plan it out.  It's all a fun mystery to figure out.  If nothing else, you get to know your boat more intimately.

Looking forward to reading about your findings.

It was nice last weekend so I took a look to see what I had for wiring and switches.  In addition to the center tank which is wired with a 5 pin switch, I have wiring and connectors (no switches) for port and starboard tanks/bags but unfortunately, the connectors for switches are also 5 pin.  It looks like all three zones are wired the same at the panel (inputs from battery and wiring for inputs from pumps and also I think a solenoid valve).  Right now, the only solenoid valve that is present is the one for the center tank.  There are two coils of wire, one is lableled port and the other starboard sender.  I assume those are for future solenoid valves for the port and starboard side.  I also found a wire in the engine compartment for a second pump.  Not sure if that would control both rear tanks/bags or if there is a separate wire I have not found for a third pump.

I assume the 5 pin wiring for port and starboard zones would allow filling with the existing ballast puppy used to fill the center tank (or possibly that pump 2 wiring) and that I would have to connect other wires to new aerator drain pumps for those zones.  That would be easiest from an electrical connection standpoint but I would have to add pumps, hose and valves.

My current thinking is to remove the solenoid and probably the strainer, and replace that 5 pin center tank switch with a 7 pin switch that would allow me us the ballast puppy for filling and draining.  At this stage, I am planning to use this same pump to fill and drain the port and starboard bags.  Since I have a single switch and pump at this point, I will control the fill and drain of all zones with manual valves.  Not ideal but still better than filling and draining with a portable pump.

I am also planning to add overflows to the bags and plumb them to the line that is currently used to drain the center tank.  If I use a wye, I am thinking I can go without the check valves on these lines.

I appreciate any input folks may have.

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fjohnp    2

Interesting find!  Makes sense that they used a common wiring harness for all the boats. Cool that you're really digging into your boat and learning more about it.  Your manual valves would definitely work, but I don't think you're too far from having an automated system for not a lot of investment.  I'm in Canada so some of the costs are different, but with your access to wakemakers, amazon, and your local sprinkler supply store (not Home Depot or Lowes) it should come together pretty quickly in the off season.

So my ballast set up would be similar - I have one main pump (located near the v-drive under the back seat cushion) that pushes water to the solenoids for Port, Centre, and Starboard.  That distribution is mounted to the back of the bench seat in the engine compartment.  When any of those switches on the dash are push to the fill position, it opens the corresponding solenoid and then turns on the single fill pump.   When either of those switches are pushed to empty, they would then start the independent pump found on the port bag, centre tank, or starboard bag (originally, there were plastic tanks used for the port and starboard ballast).  My single fill pump is not wired to be reversible.  My rear bags have a fill hose from the solenoid, a vent hose (which I added a check valve from the sprinkler store to aid with draining the bags) to prevent overfilling, and then empty hose which runs from the independent drain pump to the side of the boat.  Have a look on the side of your boat to see how many drain outlets you have and if you would need to add more (If memory serves, there's one empty and one drain port per zone with four on the port side and three on the starboard size - that extra is for the bilge).   

I'm guessing if you add the double throw switches to the existing 5 wire connectors, they'll work for starting the single pump (could always pull the centre switch and try it on those others as a no-cost test).  If that's the case, then order two additional labelled switches and two cartridge pumps to drain your bags, build a solenoid distribution (I'd suggest some brass normally closed 12 volt valves) off of the single fill pump, wire the solenoids, and running the hoses to the bags. I'm still thinking that the wiring for your drain pumps are around somewhere - perhaps do a process of elimination with the colours of the wires off the switch? Otherwise, running the 12 volt wires for the drain pumps from the switches shouldn't be overly difficult.  I'm guessing there are some good schematics around based on your switch to use as a guide.

I think wiring in independent filling pumps will definitely make filling/draining faster but you'll have to rip into the existing wiring harness or rewire from the fuse box to make sure you've got enough juice to do it.  Also, adding two extra reversible pumps isn't cheap.  All depends on how ambitious you want to be.

Ideas on your additional parts (not confirmed as the right parts for you, but to get you looking in the right direction:

- Cartridge pump for emptying your ballast bags: https://www.amazon.ca/SPX-FLOW-US-Johnson-Cartridges/dp/B00MYSQ3B6/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=Johnson+Pump&qid=1608326644&sr=8-13

- 12 volt normally closed valve: https://www.amazon.ca/uxcell®-2W160-15-Normally-Closed-Solenoid/dp/B01M2WZ35V/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=12+volt+normally+closed+solenoid&qid=1608326736&sr=8-4-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzT1QwM0tPSURHWE9LJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTA1MTY0MUpYUERBM0M2SFpFSCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjM1MTMyTEUzWVgzSTlQUUdXJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ

- Rocker Switch: https://www.wakemakers.com/supra-moomba-ballast-switch.html
- Rocker Switch Cover: https://www.wakemakers.com/ballast-switch-cover-upgrade-package.html

 

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Thanks for the input fjohnp.  I only have one existing solenoid valve so I would have to build a manifold to add two more valves for the bags.  That is tempting since the wiring is already there but I am not that experienced with wiring (not sure how to connect the existing wire bundles to the pump and valves since they are not located next to each other) while I am comfortable working with hose and manual valves.  I also figure I can always add the solenoids in place of the manual valves later but I am probably more likely to add one or possibly two pumps if I am going to be messing with wiring.

I only have 3 holes on the port side of my boat and none on the starboard.  The holes are for the vent line for the center tank, the drain line for the center tank, and the bilge line.  I had originally planned to drain the bags to that drain line for the center tank but based on quite a bit of input from others, I now plan to drain the bags through the bottom intake with the ballast puppy that I am using for filling.  This seems simpler and will save me some hose, check valves, and quick connects.  Therefore, I plan to use the old center tank drain line as my vent line for the two bags. 

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On 12/1/2020 at 9:19 AM, Troy. R said:

Not sure if this will be helpful to any of you, but attached are schematics and Bill of Materials for the install I did on my '07 Avy years back. I also included some pics.

http://www.centurioncrew.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=13013

http://www.centurioncrew.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=12972

Also, I don't recall who asked, but earlier in the thread someone asked why Centurion used the Impeller pump to fill and aerator to drain instead of using impeller pumps to fill/drain each tank. This was a cost saving measure. They would use a single impeller pump with the sprinkler valve setup to fill, but that system doesn't allow for easy draining back through the sprinkler valve, so they used the aerator pumps to drain.

In newer boats Centurion/Supreme uses multiple impeller pumps (one per bag/tank) to fill/drain through the same thru-hull. For example, my ZS232 has 8 Ballast Puppies each on its own dedicated thru-hull.

Not sure how I missed this before but this is very helpful Troy.  I was planning to fill my center tank and both rear bags with the factory ballast puppy but now I have a new idea.  I am planning to add an aerator pump to fill the small center tank since it has a 5 pin switch wired for a fill pump and drain pump.  That will allow me to keep that existing switch and have a switch dedicated to that tank which is the only one I need for wakeboarding.  For surfing,  I will then use the ballast puppy to fill and drain both bags (at least for now).  I plan to drain both bags back through the bottom of the hull although I did consider going through the side like you did.  I plan to vent the port bag to the center tank drain line and the startboard bag to the bilge drain line.  This gives me a separate port for overflow of each bag.  My diagram is not as fancy as yours but you can get the idea of my proposed setup.

20201222_145549-d.jpg

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Troy. R    198
3 hours ago, 2010 Elite V Oldman WB SS said:

Not sure how I missed this before but this is very helpful Troy.  I was planning to fill my center tank and both rear bags with the factory ballast puppy but now I have a new idea.  I am planning to add an aerator pump to fill the small center tank since it has a 5 pin switch wired for a fill pump and drain pump.  That will allow me to keep that existing switch and have a switch dedicated to that tank which is the only one I need for wakeboarding.  For surfing,  I will then use the ballast puppy to fill and drain both bags (at least for now).  I plan to drain both bags back through the bottom of the hull although I did consider going through the side like you did.  I plan to vent the port bag to the center tank drain line and the startboard bag to the bilge drain line.  This gives me a separate port for overflow of each bag.  My diagram is not as fancy as yours but you can get the idea of my proposed setup.

20201222_145549-d.jpg

Do you plan to add check valves to the 2 lines that you are using as reuse for venting?

If not I would recommend it.

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19 hours ago, Troy. R said:

Do you plan to add check valves to the 2 lines that you are using as reuse for venting?

If not I would recommend it.

I was thinking I could get away without them if I used wyes instead of tees.  Then again, since the port bag is on the same line as the center tank drain pump, and the port bag is on the bilge pump drain line, I may have to add them.  If I can access the vent/overflow line for the center tank, I may vent the to bags to that same line and use wye fittings.  I don't think it would be necessary to have the check valves in that case.

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Jralvarez21    0
On 11/24/2020 at 1:57 PM, fjohnp said:

If you're looking to keep it reasonable, you could build a new distribution centre off of your existing pump using always closed valves, some simple wiring, and extra switches on the bank below your throttle.  I replaced my sprinkler valves with 12 Volte Brass Always  ($25 each on Amazon I think) Closed Valves. While the wiring was there already for each of the ballast zones/pump/valves, 12 volt wiring is pretty easy to run between your switches and the valves.  For venting, I used some simple check valves on the vent lines which helped when I was pumping out the bags - helped to create a bit of an air lock in the bags. Here's the link for my project: https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-archive/ballast-projects/ballast-solenoid-upgrade-distribution-r161/

For pumping out the water, you'd do two more similar 12 volt pumps like the one shown above.  I think for both you'd use those double throw switches.  Drilling vent lines and pump out holes above  the water line is pretty easy - just use masking tape to measure it all out and then drill your hole with a holesaw in reverse and take your time.  Fittings are easy to find.

If I was upgrading it all again without adding extra pumps, I'd look at up grading my main pump for something with higher volume and then increase the tubing size to the valves, 1" valves, and 1" tubes to each of the bags to help improve filing time.  You could like go larger than that depending on your through hull size.. 

Man, I love this idea. Question here, you had your main water inlet hose to that distribution center, you ran switches to every one of the brass “always on” fittings, when you wired them in did you also run a positive tO your impeller

pump / pumps? So it also turned that on? I have 2 1100s in the rear, and a 350 bow bag. I hate having to manually turn valves and drain some bags yadda yadda. I love this idea. 
 

I think I’m going to hop on this train, I have two jabsco pumps now. But wanting to run a distribution off those pumps so I can do it all with the flip of a switch.

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Jralvarez21    0
On 12/1/2020 at 6:19 AM, Troy. R said:

Not sure if this will be helpful to any of you, but attached are schematics and Bill of Materials for the install I did on my '07 Avy years back. I also included some pics.

http://www.centurioncrew.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=13013

http://www.centurioncrew.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=12972

Also, I don't recall who asked, but earlier in the thread someone asked why Centurion used the Impeller pump to fill and aerator to drain instead of using impeller pumps to fill/drain each tank. This was a cost saving measure. They would use a single impeller pump with the sprinkler valve setup to fill, but that system doesn't allow for easy draining back through the sprinkler valve, so they used the aerator pumps to drain.

In newer boats Centurion/Supreme uses multiple impeller pumps (one per bag/tank) to fill/drain through the same thru-hull. For example, my ZS232 has 8 Ballast Puppies each on its own dedicated thru-hull.

Forum deleted them. Any chance you have photos of your build? 

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Troy. R    198
19 hours ago, Jralvarez21 said:

Forum deleted them. Any chance you have photos of your build? 

I do. I’ll post later when I’m in front of a computer.

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