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Choleysenzo

Weighted, propped, but cant reach requested speed

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Choleysenzo    0

So I have a 2015 FS44. I am having issues with the boat getting up to the speed set in Perfect Pass which is 11.1 but wont get past like 10 ish. I'm thinking it might be the prop (ACME 1847) since I bought the boat in Lake Havasu and live in Colorado, so about 4000-6000ft of elevation difference of where well be riding. We have been using stock RAMFILL ballast with bow and just added the PNP. It has the PCM 450. Itll run great without ballast and with ballast itll get out of the water till it hits 10mph (3300rpm). Did the custom prop deal on ACME's website and came up with the 2571 or 3039 so we ordered the 2571. Better whole shot but still wont get to speed. Wondering if it could be something with the GPS, software, or throttle. Any ideas, questions or anything to figure this out??? 

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lovetosurf    49

We had a 2015 Fs33 for 2 years and 250hrs with the 450 up at 5500-6500 ft of elevation. We experienced similar issues and tried so many props as a result, even 5 blade models but the only one that performed when loaded was the 2079 (14.5x12).

Hope that helps.

May also want to try running more trim tab when surfing (50+) to get up to speed.

Edited by lovetosurf

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Choleysenzo    0

I was told that the G23 has the same motor and I know they load them down pretty heavy too, i just curious to why this one wont get where I want it too. I'd think the 450 would have plenty of power. 

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Choleysenzo    0
10 hours ago, lovetosurf said:

We had a 2015 Fs33 for 2 years and 250hrs with the 450 up at 5500-6500 ft of elevation. We experienced similar issues and tried so many props as a result, even 5 blade models but the only one that performed when loaded was the 2079 (14.5x12).

Hope that helps.

May also want to try running more trim tab when surfing (50+) to get up to speed.

You never had any signs of prop burn?

 

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lovetosurf    49

No pop burn on the 14.5” only happened when I tried going up to the 15” diameter.

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Choleysenzo    0

Well we got the ACME 2571 14x12 installed and now putting 91 octane in. It seems to be helping. Hopefully get some pics sometime. Thanks for the help. Ill be keeping the 2079 in mind for future ref. 

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P10-WRC    6

Is your motor required to have 91 octane?  if not, you might actually be hurting performance as that fuel burns cooler and less efficiently than 87 or 89.  The only reason to up it to 91 would be if you advanced the timing on the motor

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InfinitySurf    272

Also, on fuel octane.....the higher elevation you are, the less octane you need.

I have 2014 SV244 with the ZR409 and it calls for 87 octane, the ZR450 may be different, but believe I remember that they are both timed for 87 octane. I run #1847 prop on my boat and add almost 5000lbs of ballast with no issues at holeshot or speed and can easily go over 12mph fully ballasted, but am only at 800ft elevation. My guess is the biggest difference for you is having the 14x12 due to elevation cause that motor should have plenty of power.

Running trim tab deployed will help, even if you only do it too get to speed and then put to the desired setting, the way I ballast my boat, 40-50% is perfect....less makes the wave steeper, but I like it long and steep and seems to work well for me tho I know we have different hulls. Glad its working better for you.

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Tlance    0

I have a 2015 FS44, and I'm experiencing the same problem. I bought the boat in June. We are in Utah at 4,800 ft elevation. During our test drive and the first time I took the boat out, the wave was amazing. I then took the boat to Lake Powell for a week (3,600 ft elevation), and the wave was great.  I did have a weird problem at Lake Powell where the rider profiles kept getting erased over night. But, the boat performed well. Since returning home, we have had tons of problems almost the same as in this post. Regular side wave is pretty good, but does fluctuate from 10 to 10.5 mph, but the goofy wave I have set to 11.2 and I cannot get there. The speed is all over the place, and occasionally gets over 10.5. I took my boat to my local Centurion dealer and they flashed the software on Aug 18th. That day we took it out and it performed great in all settings. We went out again on Labor Day to the same lake, and it was back to the same problems of the speed being all over the place, and not being able to get up to 11 mph. I'm quite frustrated! Could this just be a software problem and not the prop as described above? Any other ideas or suggestions?

I'm going to go back to my dealer tomorrow on my lunch break and talk to them about my prop, although they may all be out because the World Wakesurfing Championships are here at one of lakes in my area!

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dunny    0

have you calibrated the perfect pass for the extra weight ?

 

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Tlance    0
On 9/7/2018 at 0:14 PM, dunny said:

have you calibrated the perfect pass for the extra weight ?

 

I talked with my centurion dealer Friday, and one guy said that it is likely my prop causing my issues. I am currently running a 14.5 x 12 (1873). I looked at an RI237 that was in their lot for some service (maybe winterization). That owner is running a 14 x 14.25 (1847), and the guy working there said that the owner says it runs flawlessly. He also asked me what my max RPM is when I'm surfing and struggling to get up to speed. I took the boat out that afternoon, and here is what happened: I didn't use perfect pass, but just added some weight and tried to surf with no cruise control on at all. I couldn't get much past 10 mph, but averaged in the mid to upper 9's. The wave was terrible! I could surf it, but I was right behind he boat. I played with the CATS, the center tab, anything I could think of, but it struggled. While surfing, the RPM averaged about 4,000 to 4,100, and occasionally got up to 4,200. I also pulled tubes for the first time ever in this boat, and I had a REALLY hard time. Just no power.

I went back to my dealer on Saturday, and a different guy kind of made fun of me, and said that expecting a different prop to perform better was a pretty stupid idea. He suggested I make an appointment and let them run diagnostics on it. I left very frustrated and mad. Unfortunately there is only 1 other centurion dealer within driving distance and they are 80 miles away. I have a 14x14.25 prop, and I'm going to throw that on once I get a prop puller this week. If that doesn't work, I'm out of ideas.

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Troy    206

4200 rpms? wow. Sounds like a prop issue. I bet the new prop will help fix it. 

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rhino89523    29

Going with more pitch on the prop in theory should make it worse. If you are running a 12 pitch going to a 14.25 pitch will be worse. The second number...pitch is essentially how far the boat will move per revolution of motor, for pulling you want that second number to be lower, but 12 is already pretty low, usually somewhere around 10 is as low as you can get....you may have a motor issue or just be too weighted. You may have to do a reduction on the gears in your V-drive depending what gears you are currently running.

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Tlance    0

My wife and I did as much reading online as we could, and also read through the owners manual. I identified that the only thing that I've changed since our Lake Powell trip was that I remember putting in 91 octane gas throughout that trip, and since then I've not put in 91 octane. My wife found in the owners manual where it says that the zr450 needs 93 octane to perform correctly. So, I put in some octane booster, filled the rest of the tank up with 91 octane, and went out for a test drive after work. My boat's performance was significantly better! I have taken it out a second time, and again the performance and surf wave was back to being pure awesome! I cannot believe that more than a month of complete frustration was all due to the wrong octane of gas. I know this may seem like common knowledge to some, but it wasn't to this new centurion owner. When I called my boat dealer and told the friendly guy who actually tried to help me what I found, he said that it was common knowledge that it requires at least 91 octane. Obviously this is a simple thing that is very easily over looked.

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Packrat    9

Not sure if you have tried this but in Colorado you can get Ethanol Free Gas which does perform better as well as keeps your fuel lines clear. Just go to pure-gas.org to find where you can buy the gas and they do have 91 octane. 

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Tulsarust    0

Tlance, I've been experiencing the same issues as you with a 2016 FS44 and I'm running a 1615 (14.5 x 13.75) prop.  Has your boat continued to perform well with the 91 octane?  I've been frustrated liek you and need to see what octane my gas dock marina has been using.  I don't even know!  Thanks for sharing your experience and follow up.

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InfinitySurf    272
3 minutes ago, Tulsarust said:

Tlance, I've been experiencing the same issues as you with a 2016 FS44 and I'm running a 1615 (14.5 x 13.75) prop.  Has your boat continued to perform well with the 91 octane?  I've been frustrated liek you and need to see what octane my gas dock marina has been using.  I don't even know!  Thanks for sharing your experience and follow up.

What is your elevation? If its high, I imagine you will also need to prop down some, that is a large boat and you lose HP the higher you go and the thinner the air gets.

Initially he was running the 14.5x12 prop which is going to have a better holeshot than the 14.5x13.75 you currently have. I don't know if @Tlance ever tried the 1847 prop he got (14x14.25), but can guarantee that prop would have done worse at the higher elevations he was running.

It can also help to use QuickLaunch where all 3 tabs are fully deployed to help boat get up, then once it hits your crossover speed they will automatically go to your desired settings, for surfing I think the cross over speed is typically set at 8mph but you can manually reset that. If you surf at approx 11mph, I would probably bump the crossover speed up to 9.5mph. Can also be helpful to add bow weight to help it get out of the hole.

On the PCM engines, they are capable of lower octane on some models (you didn't list your engine, is it the 6.0L ZR450?), but running higher octane is a acceptable since the timing will self adjust once it senses the octane change. Some engines like the 550 require high octane.

In my 2014 manual....it states:

NOTICE:  PCM Fuel Injected engines are calibrated to operate on and provide optimum performance when using fuel with at least an 87 octane fuel rating.  PCM’s engine control module incorporates Adaptive Learn Technology to ensure optimum engine performance is obtained when using fuel rated higher than 87 octane. If a slight pinging is heard during acceleration and the proper octane fuel is being used, it is considered normal.  If a constant, heavy knock occurs, the engine should be evaluated by a PCM Marine Engines Premier service technician.

ATTENTION: For optimal performance and reliability, the ZR450 application requires the use of premium 93 Octane fuel.

WARNING: The XS550/XR550 Supercharged applications REQUIRE the use of premium 93 Octane fuel. Failure to due so could result in poor engine performance and engine damage that is not covered under warranty.

GASOLINE CONTAINING ALCOHOL The implementation of ethanol-based fuel is spreading rapidly throughout the United States.  As such, PCM Engines provides the following information regarding the use of this fuel. This information addresses the use of ethanol fuels in PCM ENGINES ONLY.  It does not address the use of ethanol fuels in vessel related components such as boat gas tanks, boat fuel lines, etc. Ethanol blended fuel rated E10 or less is acceptable to use.  Fuels rated higher than E10 SHOULD NOT BE USED.  Ethanol fuels rated higher than E10 could potentially damage the engine and/or present an unsafe boating condition.  Damage to the engine resulting from the use of ethanol fuel rated higher than E10 IS NOT covered by the warranty.
 

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rhino89523    29

Infinity hit it with the weighting thing as well. I have an older AVY and I'm propped as flat as I can go and still move forward, I run over 5000ft pretty much always. If I have girls on the boat I have no problems because women like to sit in open bows, you get 3 of them up there for an extra 300lbs and we get going no problem. When I run after work and its all dudes, nobody is up front we are all weighted up and it will just tugboat out with the bow up so high I cant see where we are going. Even a little weight like having a fat tush dude sit in the walkway until the wave forms up is usually good enough. 

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Tulsarust    0

Thanks for your help with this.  We run at 800' up to only 1200' here in Oklahoma; I'm mainly on one lake at 758' elevation.

2015 FS44 with PCM450, Quicksurf, Ramfill, CATS

We have put 50 hours on the boat learning operation and surfing.  The boat came with a 1433 (14 x 14.25 w .105c) when we got it with 150 hours.  The boat won't get up to speed for wakeboarding with the rear PNPs full and 30% ram; it will just plow at 11mph no matter what we do with the center tab.  Then surfing, we couldn't get over 10.5 with surfside ram 100%, offside 40%, bow at 50%, center tab at 70 and QS at 25%.

Switched to the 1615 prop (14.5 x 13.75 w .105c) and we have better surf speed where we can get to 11.3mph/3250 rpms now if we drop offside ram to 30% but I still can't can't get wakeboard speed up as it tops out 11.3mph and 3525rpms.  Even towing a tube with guests (3 times a year maybe) the boat really drops speed in a turn and its hard to fling a tube. 

I've had 4 boats over 30 years and not a newbie to boats, but I am new to  a v-drive.  I've read too much where some people act like their FS44 will push 5000lbs ballast no problem and others kinda struggle.  I just learned about crossover last week so I set it to 10 but didn't know I could use the QS tabs too.  I need to find out how to make that happen.  I'll buy any prop I need to perform the best for surfing and an occaisional tuber.

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Tulsarust    0

Here are the surf settings that user Lak3surf3r wrote about i another thread: I don't think I could make it past 9mph with this much ballast!  I think he was running a 2079 (14.5 x 12 w .105c) but I couldn't tell for sure with the jumbled thread.

=======

quicksurf

surf side ram full both rear pnps full, bow at 50% counter ram at 80% (just make a rider profile for reg and for goofy with these settings so you can switch ramfill weight in less than 15 seconds before transferring sides) and then the quicksurf settings at 75% deployed, cats at -30 goofy and 10 regular, trim tab at 60 on port and 40 on starboard going 11.5 mph.

========

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InfinitySurf    272
4 hours ago, Tulsarust said:

Thanks for your help with this.  We run at 800' up to only 1200' here in Oklahoma; I'm mainly on one lake at 758' elevation.

2015 FS44 with PCM450, Quicksurf, Ramfill, CATS

We have put 50 hours on the boat learning operation and surfing.  The boat came with a 1433 (14 x 14.25 w .105c) when we got it with 150 hours.  The boat won't get up to speed for wakeboarding with the rear PNPs full and 30% ram; it will just plow at 11mph no matter what we do with the center tab.  Then surfing, we couldn't get over 10.5 with surfside ram 100%, offside 40%, bow at 50%, center tab at 70 and QS at 25%.

Switched to the 1615 prop (14.5 x 13.75 w .105c) and we have better surf speed where we can get to 11.3mph/3250 rpms now if we drop offside ram to 30% but I still can't can't get wakeboard speed up as it tops out 11.3mph and 3525rpms.  Even towing a tube with guests (3 times a year maybe) the boat really drops speed in a turn and its hard to fling a tube. 

I've had 4 boats over 30 years and not a newbie to boats, but I am new to  a v-drive.  I've read too much where some people act like their FS44 will push 5000lbs ballast no problem and others kinda struggle.  I just learned about crossover last week so I set it to 10 but didn't know I could use the QS tabs too.  I need to find out how to make that happen.  I'll buy any prop I need to perform the best for surfing and an occaisional tuber.

With the 1615 prop on there and only 800ft elevation, I am surprised you have issues. Makes me wonder if you have something else going on keeping the engine from giving you full power....like fuel filters dirty, etc. On my 2014 SV244, I have 4900lbs of ballast plus 3-4 people and have no issue fully weighted, I am on Lake Norman, NC which is also at 800ft elevation. I will saw that I run my 500lb bow bag full plus have 300lbs of lead bags under the bow filler cushion, so 800lbs of my ballast is in the bow. I know the FS44 is a little heavier than my boat but something does not seem right for you to be struggling like that.

On the main home touchscreen there is a small tab that you enable, (its over the CATS setting on my screen), when you "enable" it turns yellow in color and this will deploy both quicksurf tabs as well as your center tab until you hit your crossover speed and then all 3 tabs will go to where you have them set. Hopefully that will help too

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Tulsarust    0

I’m kinda stumped too. I did an oil change after I bought it and changed the fuel filter by the oil filter but didn’t take the time to change the tall vertical fuel  filter near the transom on the starboard side. I have the parts, just didn’t do it. I’ll do that this weekend. 

I will check those settings and make sure the box/button is checked for. All three tabs. 

Anything else you can think of that would limit the output I’d be all ears. I also think it’s odd that my surf RPMs dropped from 3600ish with a 14x14.25 prop to 3200ish with the 14.5x13.75 prop. I’d figure less pitch would allow/require more RPMs since you get less push per turn with a 0.5” increase in diameter being negligible. 

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Tulsarust    0

Listed Wave looks good for us though. This is my son’s friend’s second ride ever. 

375F6D56-195B-4C31-B869-C866E73FAC5B.jpeg

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Tulsarust    0

Infinity, I am back at the lake. Here is my home screen. I’ve got a AUTO button above the Tab setting but Indint see anything about it controlling the Quicksurf tabs. Pic of my software version attached too. 

83024908-DF5F-4741-A6EF-90357003A0F9.jpeg

9CFAECB0-36AF-4364-95B8-837564F30CC5.jpeg

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