Boatmate trailer brakes not working

[InfinitySurf 302]

So I have a 2014 Boatmate trailer with tandem axles and electric brakes. Trailer brakes always worked incredible. Took the boat surfing today and was backing down a fairly steep ramp to launch boat and could tell immediately there was an issue and trailer brakes not working, truck worked really hard to stop trailer and this has never happened. After surfing I pulled boat up and did a couple minor tests at boat ramp....my assumption is there is some kind of pump when you press truck brakes that activates the trailer brakes. When you hit brakes on truck, no noise at all and I hooked it to another truck to be sure that it was not an issue with my truck. Granted I dont know if there is supposed to be a noise but that was my guess.

Little stumped at the moment, anyone had this happen and can point me in right direction? I am also going to contact Boatmate and see what they say, I should still be under warranty and my guess is that the actuator (or whatever its called that makes the brakes work on trailer when I press brakes on truck)....stopped working. I did check fluid and its full, no bubbles and all the brake lines appear to be in perfect shape and nothing is bent or looks like it was hit or effected. Surge brakes still work. I did not even notice the issue on the 30min ride to ramp, it was only in reverse going down the steep boat ramp that i realized there was an issue. Like to get this resolved as I have a 4hr trip coming up in a couple weeks that i will be dragging the boat thru mountains and then I gotta launch at a crazy steep ramp cause its a backwoods campground in BFE that I will not want to do without the brakes (tho i will if I have too, lol).

I planned to call Boatmate anyway cause my Fulton F2 trailer jack stopped working right too. I ripped it apart a couple weeks ago and greased the crap out of it, but still works like crap (super hard to jack up with the boat weight) and the F2 jacks are supposed to be "maintainance free" and have a limited lifetime warranty....so guess we will see how that warranty holds up. I do trailer quite a bit and since boat is heavy, jack almost always ends up underwater so sure that is contributing to the issue, but they gotta know that will happen on a boat trailer. Anyway, the brakes are what is worrying me, I am gonna order a new jack anyway, hopefully the will replace the original and then I will have a spare.

[volzalum 280]

If you’re trailer has surge brakes, then it does not have electric or electric over hydraulic brakes. Trailers with surge brakes do not have brakes when backing down a ramp, they only have brakes when decelerating and the tounge compresses. You have a reverse override that prevents the brakes from actuating when compressing the tounge by backing up. You would have a 4 or 5 wire flat connector.

If you have electric brakes you would not have any brake fluid as the brakes would be fully controlled by the electric actuators. You would have a 7 pin round connector.

If you have electric over hydraulic you will have a hydraulic pump at the front of your trailer most likely in a battery box. You would have a 7 pin round connector. 

[InfinitySurf 302]

48 minutes ago, volzalum said:

If you’re trailer has surge brakes, then it does not have electric or electric over hydraulic brakes. Trailers with surge brakes do not have brakes when backing down a ramp, they only have brakes when decelerating and the tounge compresses. You have a reverse override that prevents the brakes from actuating when compressing the tounge by backing up. You would have a 4 or 5 wire flat connector.

If you have electric brakes you would not have any brake fluid as the brakes would be fully controlled by the electric actuators. You would have a 7 pin round connector.

If you have electric over hydraulic you will have a hydraulic pump at the front of your trailer most likely in a battery box. You would have a 7 pin round connector. 

Got more info, been messing with the trailer since I made that post. I have a model XR-84 Hydraulic Brake Actuator with 4 disc brakes....it also has an option where when you brake truck, the actuator depresses (tounge moves forward) and puts pressure on brakes but there is also a 5th pin in the harness which locks out that option for reversing trailer (I can also manually lock it out with a "key". So I will admit that i don't know exactly what I have but it has 4 disc brakes made by "Trailer Buddy", Model DB35. Dont know if that is electric over hydraulic, or just hydraulic brakes with electric to the master cylinder (there is not battery box)...its a 5 wire flat connector.

I just went out and did volt meter test (I admit I am not the best at wiring and why I asked for help)....but I have a 7pin to 5pin adapter on back of truck which is what I plug the trailer into. When I tested directly to adapter...I got voltage for everything except the reverse wire of course. I put a cynder block on the brake pedal to keep them out and then I put the voltmeter on the actuator master cylinder and get nothing, so I am wondering if the actuator master cylinder went bad.

In the manual under troubleshooting for brakes not operating or poor performance possible causes: I know the brake pads are good cause they were just checked this Spring as i had tire rotates and looked at them myself. I know there is enough fluid, I cannot see any pinched/broken lines and I see no corrosion/rust that would keep the brakes from working. Only thing left from what I can see in manuel is a "Seized actuator master cylinder" (prevent piston from stroking)...what has me confused is that there is a blue and white wire running from the master cylinder (which I can only assume means when i hit the brakes inside the truck, it activates the brakes on trailer and i KNOW it used to do that as I used this same ramp all last summer with no issues like this) but manual does not talk about electric being an issue and I can manually stroke that actuator as I pushed it and saw the fluid "swirl" when doing it while looking into the top cap.

Knowing all this other info.....would you say its likely that the master cylinder went bad or something got corroded on the wires and that is why disc brakes are no longer working? I also noticed today that there is a little corrosion on the brake shoes, which makes it look like the brake pads are NOT depressing or that would wear off that light surface corrosion. Never worked much on vehicles so dont know much about brakes. Boats are my thing but guess I am gonna have to learn fast about brakes since I like to DIY, lol.

Thanks for the help and/or comments.

[volzalum 280]

You only have surge brakes. The brakes are pressurized by the actuator. There is no electric actuation of the brakes, only electric lock out of actuating the brakes when in reverse. With your trailer braking system you will never have trailer brakes when backing down a slope, and with the electric reverse lockout you wil never have trailer braking when in reverse. 

[InfinitySurf 302]

Hmm, something was definitely wrong today cause my truck has never had any issue at all stopping truck/trailer when backing down a steep ramp. Maybe something is going on with my truck then. Gonna have to have the mechanic check them out, I know truck pads are good cause I recently had tires installed and looked at the pads myself, maybe the brakes need to be bled or something. Good info to know

[Nick213 583]

Volz is 100% correct on the breaking of the trailer. 

Infinity I have never had a problem breaking backing down a ramp either so from what your explaining says that there's something up with the truck. If I remember correctly you have a 1/2 ton Silverado? And if so my last few 1/2 tons the breaks went very quickly from the half pad down. Basically the pads had a longer life from new to half and less from half pads to replacing if that makes sense. I have even replaced warped rotors with break pads having life left in them due to towing heavy loads and heating the rotors to much. 

My bet would be the trucks pads and/or rotors.

[InfinitySurf 302]

Yea, betting you are right. I am gonna have the brakes on truck checked out and corrected. Only thing that makes sense since trailer has surge brakes only. Its likely pads since I have like 63k miles on truck. I am really easy on brakes, especially when towing, so doubt rotors but will have those checked too. 

Anyone done an Electric over Hydraulic conversion on a Boatmate? I did some looking last night and it seemed that Hydrastar made some quality kits. I found this kit for about $796 (MHBA-10-CON)....its 1000psi. They have up to 1600 psi kits but in my reading it seemed that surge brake lines are not always rated really high tho I am gonna verify that with Boatmate and see what they recommend. Sounds like its something worth doing, especially since I tow with 1500.

For anyone that has done a conversion, is this something I can DIY or something that is probably better to take to a dealer? Link below to the kit I found.

https://www.hydrastarusa.com/products/surge-brake-conversion/

[Troy 234]

I'm debating to swap to electric over hydraulic also. Keep the thread updated through your process please. :-) 

[InfinitySurf 302]

I will do that tho its possible that I will wait till Fall to do the upgrade if it ends up being an issue with truck that is fixed since I had no issues with braking or backing down the steeper ramps previously...tho I will be doing this at some point. Currently sinking all my funds into new house build next to lake and with how much material costs have jumped in last 6 months it has put me quite a bit over my original budget, that I am paying out of pocket and its starting to hurt (least I am almost dried in and since lumber jumped the most has caused me the most pain). So trying to temporarily curb my compulsive tendencies to spend money on the boat/gear/upgrades every week 

[rhino89523 34]

Don't know your truck at all, but many trucks have an actuator that comes off the rear axle back up to the frame that controls bias of the braking system so that when you put a load in the back of the truck it can sense the weight and knows you can use more braking bias into the rear of the truck. I'm going with that as the possible culprit because I feel like you would know if your brakes were straight up bad. Your truck brakes I am thinking you would hear the metal to metal contact if they were straight up gone...doesn't mean you shouldn't check them but if they are discs they have a warning tab on the pad that squeaks annoyingly before you hit metal and drums just start sounding horrible when you hit metal to metal.

I personally never top off my brake fluid, I can tell where my pads or shoes are at by where the fluid is in my master, then I bleed/flush when I replace the pads. Master will be full when the pads are fresh.

[InfinitySurf 302]

I talked to my mechanic today...my pads are right about 50% life on truck and without towing trailer they work just fine and act like normal. He thinks that the pads just got a glazing on them....they are the original pads and I have 62k miles on truck (2016 Chevy 1500 with tow package). Anyway, he thinks that they are likely glazed a bit since I don't ride the brakes hard and why they are only acting like that in reverse only with heavy load. He is ordering me special ceramic pads that are made for trailering and will grab well since its time for me to replace anyway. I will get that done next week and see what happens, prefer to wait till next off season to put money into trailer as long as it tows and launches safely.

I had a Chevy 2500 duramax that i got 100k miles out of a set of brake pads and I trailered with that truck quite a bit, I tend to use engine brake and dont ride them, so I am thinking he is likely right on them being glazed