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bomoseen avy    31

quick update and I can post pics later for those interested. I saw the SV244 GSA post so I'm not sure if this info is applicable to the bigger brother. 

Got my third ride out with GSA system this am. Crew of 5. Spoke to Ryan and he recommended all lead in the back lockers, none up front. So 400# rear port and 320#rear strbd. Filled quickfills, both rear lockers and both mid seat bags. Boat struggled to get to 10.8. Emptied strbd mid seat bag half way. Still struggled to get to speed so emptied some of each quick fill (I think half?) until PP was able to catch up-speed 11 mph paddlewheel.

This was the best wave I've had so far after install. RPM's at 3500. Face of wave not as steep as I recall listed or with suckgate. I still haven't experienced "crazy push" over the suckgate but this was a very enjoyable wave and could easily ride the back of the wave without shooting out. My son (6'4" 170#) liked it as well as suckgate wave felt he had to try less hard for airs.

Obviously will need more tuning but I'm wondering if slamming with weight is actually counterproductive. I'm going to try NOT filling mid seat pro bags next time. If it wasn't such a PITA I might also take all the lead out and try just stock ballast.

After I fart around with that I might consider trying to decrease the tab deployment like MrWick. There is definitely a learning curve here, not without a little frustration/anxiety at spending $4K and drilling a bunch of holes in your boat.

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InfinitySurf    200

Interesting, since I have heard from others and seen myself on a couple boats that GSA wave gets better as you add weight (all hulls are a bit different regarding whether they like bow weight or not and also depends on how much total weight you are running). There is no doubt that every boat is slightly different depending on hull design and they product the best wave at a specific list and yaw...once figured out, the further you sink the hull (within reason), as long as you keep it proportionate so list/yaw stay the same, wave should just get better with tab system. Sounds like you may need to prop down so you can push the weight. 

On deployment angle, once its set to "surf left", or whichever....cant you use the center dial knob on control panel to then fine tune the tab so you can see what decreasing deployment does a click at a time? That is how it works on my friends boat, his best wave is "surf left" and then 4 clicks up, tho I know that every boat is installed at slightly different degree so that does not mean anything to anyone else's boat, just mentioning that in case you wanna try it. No doubt that Ryan would know best what works, kindof surprised he does not have an area on his website that shows different model boats with pics, weight and other settings that worked best for the owners.

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bomoseen avy    31

Pretty sure running the 1847. I say pretty sure because I bought the boat from WETSU last year. I have a spare 1847 and I seem to recall he told me he had the exact same prop mounted. I have to get some goggles on and go on under the lift to confirm.

 I think I’m going to take a look at the system on the lift today with a helper running the tabs.  The center dial knob on the control panel (potentiometer)  does not have hard clicks on this model. I will set it all the way counterclockwise (surf) and slowly move clockwise (skim) to see if there is a deployment difference. In the water I have had the system set all the way from “surf” to “skim”  without a discernible difference. 

 Your website idea is a great one. I’m sure that would save Ryan a lot of phone calls and texts also. I reached out to synergytogo to see what his set up is as he seems to have a wave he’s really happy with.  Ryan also said the less tab in the water the harder the wave will push. You will need more weight in the rear compared to a gate system but not less weight overall. 

 

FF00C6B0-6BCF-4681-88C0-07AD94C77432.jpeg

AA32E022-AA68-412A-931D-9178AC8E1A6F.jpeg

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InfinitySurf    200

I run the 1847 and the 1433 (both the same size @ 14x14.25, just different cup) on mine SV244 as the low end torque prop, should give you plenty of grunt, its definitely the best prop with my boat/engine combo since I can surf at well over 13mph with all ballast loaded (that is not what I do, but was curious one day and was able to get it to around 13.5mph fully loaded)....and 40mph WOT unloaded. So you may wanna confirm since if its not the 1847, your spare may get you a little better lower end to push you to surf speed since you mentioned it struggled with all the weight being loaded at rear. Sounds like Ryan confirmed you still want as much weight as possible, you just may want more rear weight compared to best wave you had using suck gate? Maybe after you get setup on next session, if you have like 4 adults with you.....have them move into different places of the boat as a group and spread out to see what it does, may be quickest way to see what seems to get you best results without having to drag the lead around multiple times.

Wave shape looks nice! Love to hear back what you find when you start moving that center dial since its different than the "Wave control", if I were to get the GSA system, it would be really important to me that tabs are adjustable since the chance of the angle being correct at first try is slim odds. I was hoping that at some point he would also have a way to "program" the controller so once you find the perfect angle for your boat on regular AND goofy sides....you can program the controller to default to that deployment angle every time (and then still manually adjust from there), cause I have seen what a PITA it is on friends boat to always have to click it back those "4 clicks" when you are doing quick surf transfers back and forth.

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bomoseen avy    31
Posted (edited)

tried to embed a quick video of potentiometer function but didn't work. I'll try later

Went out last night didn't fill mid seat pro bags- left lead in place, filled rear locker PNP's and quickfill. Boat seemed very rear heavy couldn't get nose down as much as usual with A plate so bumped speed up to 11.4 with decent results. Lot of wind so chop made it challenging. Will keep trying but son 3

 

Edited by bomoseen avy
didn't embed

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Mrwick    59
Posted (edited)

So it seems we are both at the same point in our journey with our GSA systems....I am thinking just like you that there is potential to ditch most of my 900 lbs of lead and just use hard tanks and PNP bags in the rear.  My best waves to date are with all factory tanks empty and just PNP bags full plus 800 lbs of lead in rear lockers and 100lbs of lead in the bow.   I also agree with Infinity that we both could probably use a little more aggressive prop to help us with our lack of speed with more weight on board.  With a little more prop and more weight, I think you can have your tabs deployed at a +1 to +3 degree angle and have a killer wave....my best wave to date is at a deployed angle of -1.....Ryan said the only part of the tab that should be doing any work is the thrusters.    From what I’ve seen, this is probably true.

Edited by Mrwick

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bomoseen avy    31

Can u explain the tab deployment angles? Just want to confirm are those tab angle numbers relative to the hull using the angle finder app like on the install videos? Or is that "clicks" like Infinity was describing.

Thanks for your input on the journey. I'm out of town for a week so further experiments will be put on hold temporarily...

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InfinitySurf    200

Man, that would be pretty awesome to have a killer wave with less weight, rather than more. Boat does not work as hard, more fuel efficient, more storage in boat, etc! Perfect wave shape with great push beats bigger wave anyway

In above video, that cant be all the movement there is in the tab, is it? Guessing it had already come down from its fully retracted position? 

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Mrwick    59
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, bomoseen avy said:

Can u explain the tab deployment angles? Just want to confirm are those tab angle numbers relative to the hull using the angle finder app like on the install videos? Or is that "clicks" like Infinity was describing.

Thanks for your input on the journey. I'm out of town for a week so further experiments will be put on hold temporarily...

So 0 degrees deployment would be the tab being perfectly level with the bottom of the hull.  Negative  deployment would be angling downward into the water.  Positive deployment would be angled up towards the swim deck.  Different people describe this differently but I am a old toolmaker that uses above the “0” plane as positive and below the “0” plane as negative.  I’ve read over on the Malibu forums that some of those guys are running positive 1 to 4 degrees loaded down with weight.   The “clicks” are equal to about a degree in a half on my boat. On the dial between “surf” and “skim” there is only about 6 degrees of movement 

Edited by Mrwick

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Mrwick    59
10 hours ago, InfinitySurf said:

Man, that would be pretty awesome to have a killer wave with less weight, rather than more. Boat does not work as hard, more fuel efficient, more storage in boat, etc! Perfect wave shape with great push beats bigger wave anyway

In above video, that cant be all the movement there is in the tab, is it? Guessing it had already come down from its fully retracted position? 

I think ultimately more weight  probably = bigger wave but if I can keep replicating the wave I have now, I think I can be fairly happy.  It’s about as tall as my loaded listed wave and has good push back 20 to 25 foot.   If I can ditch the near 1k in lead, the boat becomes easier to tow.  The fact is I want an Ri wave but thats not going to happen out of my 5 yr old “value” surf boat.  If I can get close and the wave is easy to achieve, I’ll consider that a win.  Plus I only have 50k invested!

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bomoseen avy    31
11 hours ago, InfinitySurf said:

Man, that would be pretty awesome to have a killer wave with less weight, rather than more. Boat does not work as hard, more fuel efficient, more storage in boat, etc! Perfect wave shape with great push beats bigger wave anyway

In above video, that cant be all the movement there is in the tab, is it? Guessing it had already come down from its fully retracted position? 

so in the vid I had set the unit to surf goofy, so the port tab was deployed to full in "surf" mode. Then had my son move dial to full skim. You get a little movement then no movement but a lot of actuator firing. Then had him move all the way back to surf mode. Lot of movement in the potentiometer dial but tab obviously doesn't respond through that whole range.

 

Not yet sure if more fuel efficient. Still runs at 3500RPM. When I get back I might retract tabs and try suckgate again to see what my RPM's are running

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bomoseen avy    31
38 minutes ago, Mrwick said:

So 0 degrees deployment would be the tab being perfectly level with the bottom of the hull.  Negative  deployment would be angling downward into the water.  Positive deployment would be angled up towards the swim deck.  Different people describe this differently but I am a old toolmaker that uses above the “0” plane as positive and below the “0” plane as negative.  I’ve read over on the Malibu forums that some of those guys are running positive 1 to 4 degrees loaded down with weight.   The “clicks” are equal to about a degree in a half on my boat. On the dial between “surf” and “skim” there is only about 6 degrees of movement 

awesome!! TY!!

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Mrwick    59
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bomoseen avy said:

so in the vid I had set the unit to surf goofy, so the port tab was deployed to full in "surf" mode. Then had my son move dial to full skim. You get a little movement then no movement but a lot of actuator firing. Then had him move all the way back to surf mode. Lot of movement in the potentiometer dial but tab obviously doesn't respond through that whole range.

 

Not yet sure if more fuel efficient. Still runs at 3500RPM. When I get back I might retract tabs and try suckgate again to see what my RPM's are running

My RPMs have not changed from listed to GSA.  11 mph is 3100rpm.  It is definitely lugging the engine more though.

Edited by Mrwick

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InfinitySurf    200
11 hours ago, bomoseen avy said:

so in the vid I had set the unit to surf goofy, so the port tab was deployed to full in "surf" mode. Then had my son move dial to full skim. You get a little movement then no movement but a lot of actuator firing. Then had him move all the way back to surf mode. Lot of movement in the potentiometer dial but tab obviously doesn't respond through that whole range.

 

Not yet sure if more fuel efficient. Still runs at 3500RPM. When I get back I might retract tabs and try suckgate again to see what my RPM's are running

Makes a lot more sense, don't think I have seen them out of water adjusting before just between surf/skim, so wasn't sure. Actuator did keep making noise for a few full seconds after tab stopped moving downwards, hopefully that is not bad for it. I would not know

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Mrwick    59
2 hours ago, InfinitySurf said:

Makes a lot more sense, don't think I have seen them out of water adjusting before just between surf/skim, so wasn't sure. Actuator did keep making noise for a few full seconds after tab stopped moving downwards, hopefully that is not bad for it. I would not know

Mine does the same thing

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bomoseen avy    31

So I think on the GSA install  video the recommended deployment of the tab is between 9 and 15°.  I checked my angles for deployment for surf and skim using the AngleFinder app  that was recommended for the install.  I think there is quite a bit of variance with it’s accuracy depending on the curve of the bottom of the hull and the area on the tab that is measured.  Anyway in full surf mode I got 8° of deployment and in skin mode I measured 11° of deployment.  During the install I had assumed that more deployment was desirable. Would’ve been useful information to know as it may have affected where I mounted the actuator 

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Mrwick    59
5 hours ago, bomoseen avy said:

So I think on the GSA install  video the recommended deployment of the tab is between 9 and 15°.  I checked my angles for deployment for surf and skim using the AngleFinder app  that was recommended for the install.  I think there is quite a bit of variance with it’s accuracy depending on the curve of the bottom of the hull and the area on the tab that is measured.  Anyway in full surf mode I got 8° of deployment and in skin mode I measured 11° of deployment.  During the install I had assumed that more deployment was desirable. Would’ve been useful information to know as it may have affected where I mounted the actuator 

Lol.....Yep, I set mine to those angles as well. I called Ryan after my first outing and he told me this, “I wish you would’ve called me and I would have told you to use much less of an angle. “.    I believe every boat probably has a very different set up.  I don’t blame Ryan, but I do wish he would add to his instructions to advise him of your boat for specific angles of the tabs.

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bomoseen avy    31
Posted (edited)

 So not so quick update.  Moved all my lead to the back and filled rear lockers and quickfills on both sides. All together 1860# on each side. Synergytogo  walked me through his set up and I realized his 233 with the cab forward design does carry bigger bags in the middle seats.   At this point I am not filling my pro bags just running all my weight in the rear.

He also checked his tab deployment angles for me and it appears that his were running significantly less than mine. My full deployment was anywhere between 11 and 12 degrees his seem closer to 6 and 10 degrees between surf and skim  modes.  He had his system installed by Ryan. 

 So I told Ryan I was going to move the  lower mounting bracket out away from the boat to the next set of holes towards the end of the tab.  Pulled the boat out of the water because it was almost impossible to do the work in the water with the boat on the lift. It became apparent that I could get  the angle I was looking for in full deployment,  but when the tabs retracted they contacted the swim platform pretty firmly.  I couldn’t find another hole setting to attach the actuator that would give me what I wanted. I decided to try the system despite the retracted tabs contacting the swim platform. When I put the boat back in the water to try it out I blew the fuse on the controller.  Didn’t have time to work on the system so I spent the weekend surfing with the suck gate using my set up from last summer. 

 Ryan spent a bunch of time with me today walking me through what he wanted me to do. I pulled the boat again and retracted both tabs to within a quarter inch of the swim platform. I then used the unscrewed lower mounting bracket per his recommendations to trace an outline where new holes will be drilled into the tab. When the lower mounting bracket was screwed back in this gave me a deployment angle of about 3 1/2° on the starboard side and 2 1/2° on the port side.

Took her for a test drive tonight  with really good results. Regular  wave was long with nice shape and good push even at the rear. I would rate it better than my typical suckgate wave. The goofy wave was an absolute monster. On the regular side I had to run my speed a little slower like around 10.6 mph. We only had one rider on the goofy side and had to speed up to about 11.4 to lengthen it out. Will play around with this but overall really stoked with these results. Definitely a journey but looking forward to taking her out over the next few days. Can’t say enough about Ryan’s help today, too! I’ll try and get some pictures up the next few days. 

 Oh yeah, I have yet to change my prop. Still running the 1847. Tonight the engine seem to be working at a little less RPMs than it had before. I still may look at another prop but will play around with the settings a bit before I do so.

Shout out to synergytogo also for all his help! It's so awesome to have the support of this community online. It is greatly appreciated

Edited by bomoseen avy
misspelling
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synergytogo    3

Glad to hear the good news!.  Let me know if I can do anything else to help. 

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bomoseen avy    31

Couple pics sorry not great goofy as I was driving 

0D79A513-3E98-4D1B-9A88-D2E069C4332D.jpeg

9A8D6FC7-190A-485D-8E09-7EAE55C79458.jpeg

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Dkagele    0

Nice work! I have a 2013 SV 244 and have been kicking around this idea for sometime.. I just don't want to compromise spending 4 g and getting a smaller wake, than you would have with a listed boat? But less weight and more storage would be totally awesome, and ease of switching from goofy to normal.  In your opinion was it worth it?

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bomoseen avy    31

Yes

I have been out maybe 6-8 times on the boat with the system working well. Like MrWick says, it was a journey, but I am super happy with it right now. Having done the mod once, I would be very focused on the final tab deployment angle, given this boat's particular hull shape. Knowing that at the start would have bypassed some initial frustration withthe install. The wake is definitely not smaller than listed or suckgate, and has great push. My regular wave pictured above is with my son who is 6'4" just to put the picture in perspective.

Devil's advocate-is it necessary? Maybe not, but I really think it improves the value of the boat. If you're into transfers, a little slow at 3 seconds compared to some of the newer technology out there. For me, I am really glad I did it.  

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Mrwick    59

Bomoseen, it is crazy that as I read your updates, it’s like identical to my story!  Last weekend with a crew of 5, new and improved Ri style of center trim tab, 1300 lbs in each rear locker, both rear hard tanks full (250 lbs per side) and 300 lbs of lead under the surf side side seat, my wave was really nice!  The crazy thing is, the goofy wave is absolutely killer now...... better than the regular wave......it is tall and long with a very nice transition.   I ride regular so it kinda makes me mad!   Lol.  This weekend I will work on improving the regular wave.  I’ve adjusted my tabs to deploy the least amount that the swim deck will allow.... this gives me a negative 1/2 of degree deployment while in “full surf” on the control.   The goofy wave likes a negative 2 degree deployment for the best wave.    ******opinion*******.  I wish that I had “full” control of the tab angle with the actuators.  The non-programmable presets are probably fine for most people, but I would love to have an actuator with a built in transducer that would report its position to the controller.  This way you could have tab position read outs on the app.  Then you could dial the wave and record the position with out having to monkey with the brackets.  If there was a programmable setting option, you could store the position, or range of positions that works for you particular boat.  ***********.   

I still believe that I need less deployment, so my answer for that is to raise the swim deck an inch or two, or build a new one, so I can get to another hole on the tab bracket.  I would love for my middle setting to be at 0 degrees deployment and have 3 degrees to play with on the positive or negative deployment ....Bomoseen, you might benefit from the same mod.   I will try it and let you know if it works.

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Mrwick    59

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bomoseen avy    31

 Dude we are both going to have to learn how to surf on the Darkside. Good problem to have!!

love your ideas on the programmable settings. Still agree the GSA site should do boat specific installation instructions for different manufacturers and hull types 

keep me posted if u modify the swim platform bracket. I had similar thoughts before I redrilled the holes in the tab. I’m pretty pleased right now so just gonna enjoy the surf for a while. Maybe a mod for the colder weather months 

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