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Mrwick    60

I had a couple of free hours today to start the install of my new GSA system.  I currently have just 2 hours invested in the install of the tabs....The install vids on GSA’s website are very helpful up to this point.

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RhuntIII    554

Excellent work! The screws that mount the piano hinges to the boat...

Are they through hull nuts and bolts or a lag type screw? 

5200 for sealant?

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Mrwick    60
3 hours ago, NW Boat Sports said:

Very cool. Well done. How is the wiring coming?

That will be next weekends project,👍

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Mrwick    60
1 hour ago, RhuntIII said:

Excellent work! The screws that mount the piano hinges to the boat...

Are they through hull nuts and bolts or a lag type screw? 

5200 for sealant?

The fasteners are 1/4 inch stainless lags.... the sealant was an Atwood marine sealant product....it came with the install kit.  If you look close at the pics, you can see that I had to run the actuator wire through the hull about 4 inches higher that the actuator mounting bracket.....that was the lowest exposed area in the rear locker.  That height was 1/2 inch above the floor where the hard tank is mounted.  There seems to be a 6 inch or so cavity that is empty and non-accessible Under the rear hard tanks.  That makes me curious as to what the actual mold and inner structure looked like during the boat build.

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Shaka    137

How much downward angle are you getting once the tab is deployed?

I'm building my own system but can't decide if I'm getting the 2.25" stroke actuators used in your build or the 4.25" actuators they are currently putting on Centurions and Supremes.

 

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h20king    773
2 hours ago, Mrwick said:

The fasteners are 1/4 inch stainless lags.... the sealant was an Atwood marine sealant product....it came with the install kit.  If you look close at the pics, you can see that I had to run the actuator wire through the hull about 4 inches higher that the actuator mounting bracket.....that was the lowest exposed area in the rear locker.  That height was 1/2 inch above the floor where the hard tank is mounted.  There seems to be a 6 inch or so cavity that is empty and non-accessible Under the rear hard tanks.  That makes me curious as to what the actual mold and inner structure looked like during the boat build.

post-777-0-49970500-1394161212_thumb.jpgpost-777-0-87137100-1394161078_thumb.jpgpost-777-0-70341800-1393983466_thumb.jpgpost-777-0-27349300-1393983442_thumb.jpglooks like this.  Here  are some of our 226 build pics 

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Mrwick    60

Lol!    H, I should have known that you would have the pics for me!  Thanks!

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Mrwick    60
2 hours ago, Shaka said:

How much downward angle are you getting once the tab is deployed?

I'm building my own system but can't decide if I'm getting the 2.25" stroke actuators used in your build or the 4.25" actuators they are currently putting on Centurions and Supremes.

 

Shaka, I have a 15 down angle and a 20ish up angle......that falls at the max recommended down angle from GSA. 

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Shaka    137

It makes perfect sense because you have to have a lot of up angle on the GSA to accommodate the diversion fins on the bottom of the plate. If you don't have those you can get away with ten or twelve degrees of up angle. The Centurions will also get about twenty degrees of down angle. I think I can achieve that with the smaller actuator. 

I also run up against issues with the sub floor. Mine doesn't hold any ballast so I can drill a hole in the top and get at the wire. I'll make a plate or something to cover it back up. 

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Mrwick    60
7 hours ago, Shaka said:

It makes perfect sense because you have to have a lot of up angle on the GSA to accommodate the diversion fins on the bottom of the plate. If you don't have those you can get away with ten or twelve degrees of up angle. The Centurions will also get about twenty degrees of down angle. I think I can achieve that with the smaller actuator. 

I also run up against issues with the sub floor. Mine doesn't hold any ballast so I can drill a hole in the top and get at the wire. I'll make a plate or something to cover it back up. 

Are you going to channel the water out like the GSA /Gen 2 Mastercraft ?

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Mrwick    60
15 hours ago, NW Boat Sports said:

Very cool. Well done. How is the wiring coming?

You guys wouldn’t happen to have a swim deck off of a new 226 laying around would you?

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h20king    773
Posted (edited)

While you are at it keep your eyes out for a enzo rear facing seat  kitpost-777-0-13518200-1423014558_thumb.jpgpost-777-0-80369900-1407029708_thumb.jpgpost-777-0-24833900-1407029696_thumb.jpg

Edited by h20king
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Shaka    137
1 hour ago, Mrwick said:

Are you going to channel the water out like the GSA /Gen 2 Mastercraft ?

I had a long discussion with someone that was involved in the current Centurion design. According to him they did prototypes with diversion fins (they actually had fins that could be adjusted using a swivel) and found that fins were more effective with flatter bottom boats and really weren't needed for the deep V's like Centurion and Supreme. With that said it's obvious that the GSA system is great with deep V boats and the fins certainly aren't screwing up the wave.

I'm almost to the point where the plates will be mocked up in a .dxf file and ready to be laser cut. Once that is out of the way it will not be a big deal to do another set with fins. Right now I'm mostly worried about getting the brackets correct with the ability to use long or short stroke actuators.

The really big mess in this is that the company that starts with a Ma and ends in bu hold a patent that covers any type of surf system and not just the gates. All the manufacturers pay them a royalty of around $1k for every boat made with a surf system. I have a hunch GSA is paying the royalty as well which is why their system is so expensive.

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jeepfrk9    7

Ok h20king...you can’t just post a picture of that rear seat back modification without sharing more details.  I’d love that on my 15 226.  

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h20king    773

Seat back kit is from a 14 enzo 230+ it was a bolt in kit. All I had to do was have the cushion covered in matching vinyl 

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Mrwick    60
21 hours ago, Shaka said:

I had a long discussion with someone that was involved in the current Centurion design. According to him they did prototypes with diversion fins (they actually had fins that could be adjusted using a swivel) and found that fins were more effective with flatter bottom boats and really weren't needed for the deep V's like Centurion and Supreme. With that said it's obvious that the GSA system is great with deep V boats and the fins certainly aren't screwing up the wave.

I'm almost to the point where the plates will be mocked up in a .dxf file and ready to be laser cut. Once that is out of the way it will not be a big deal to do another set with fins. Right now I'm mostly worried about getting the brackets correct with the ability to use long or short stroke actuators.

The really big mess in this is that the company that starts with a Ma and ends in bu hold a patent that covers any type of surf system and not just the gates. All the manufacturers pay them a royalty of around $1k for every boat made with a surf system. I have a hunch GSA is paying the royalty as well which is why their system is so expensive.

As far as your tab geometry goes, if you only need 15 to 20 degrees down angle, the short actuator like I used would be fine.  If you need more angle or choose to mount your actuator in a different orientation, you may need to go longer.   

Now the patient topic.....I don’t have an inside engineering source at any boat manufacturer, but I did look at Malibu’s patient portfolio to find that they have protection on their surfgate going back to like 2011 or so.  They also appear to own the patient rights to a system that is basically the CATS system that Centurion uses.....I would suspect that this is what a royality is being paid for, if any, to Bu.  Trim tab systems have been around for years, they by themselves are not novel.  But I would assume that anyone who is adding water redirecting fins or things of that nature would file a new patient citing the original trim tab patient, and then add their conjunction of claims and improvements.  I know tha GSA has patients pending, but I don’t know what specifically they filed for protection on.......I haven’t done the research but I’m sure every manufacturer has applied for some sort of IP protection on their “surf/wake” software systems.  I’m sure Bu also has trademarked the name Surfgate.....this is all basic stuff when introducing new products to market.

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Mrwick    60

Shaka, are you going to use stainless or aluminum to build your tabs?

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jeepfrk9    7

H20...any information where I can start to look for one?   I’ve never seen that

 

Thanks man! 

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Shaka    137
1 hour ago, Mrwick said:

Shaka, are you going to use stainless or aluminum to build your tabs?

The Supreme style tabs are going to be aluminum and the Centurion style tab is going to be stainless.

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Shaka    137
2 hours ago, Mrwick said:

As far as your tab geometry goes, if you only need 15 to 20 degrees down angle, the short actuator like I used would be fine.  If you need more angle or choose to mount your actuator in a different orientation, you may need to go longer.   

Now the patient topic.....I don’t have an inside engineering source at any boat manufacturer, but I did look at Malibu’s patient portfolio to find that they have protection on their surfgate going back to like 2011 or so.  They also appear to own the patient rights to a system that is basically the CATS system that Centurion uses.....I would suspect that this is what a royality is being paid for, if any, to Bu.  Trim tab systems have been around for years, they by themselves are not novel.  But I would assume that anyone who is adding water redirecting fins or things of that nature would file a new patient citing the original trim tab patient, and then add their conjunction of claims and improvements.  I know tha GSA has patients pending, but I don’t know what specifically they filed for protection on.......I haven’t done the research but I’m sure every manufacturer has applied for some sort of IP protection on their “surf/wake” software systems.  I’m sure Bu also has trademarked the name Surfgate.....this is all basic stuff when introducing new products to market.

Interesting my source at Centurion stated that they weren't paying licensing for CATS until they were purchased by Correct Craft.

Here's an article on the settlement. There is quite a bit of information on other boat forums.

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/industry-news/mastercraft-and-malibu-boats-settle-patent-lawsuit

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Shaka    137
On 3/18/2018 at 8:47 PM, Mrwick said:

Shaka, I have a 15 down angle and a 20ish up angle......that falls at the max recommended down angle from GSA. 

The GSA has to have more up angle because of the diversion stuff hanging off the bottom. I really think GSA is a cool design.

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Mrwick    60
3 hours ago, Shaka said:

The GSA has to have more up angle because of the diversion stuff hanging off the bottom. I really think GSA is a cool design.

I was going to build my own tab system as well until I made the decision to buy the GSA for their tab design.....if I would have had access to to one of their tabs, I probably would have just paid tribute to it in my shop.....lol

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Mrwick    60
Posted (edited)

US8534214.pdf

Heres the cats patient...

Edited by Mrwick

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Shaka    137
8 minutes ago, Mrwick said:

I was going to build my own tab system as well until I made the decision to buy the GSA for their tab design.....if I would have had access to to one of their tabs, I probably would have just paid tribute to it in my shop.....lol

As I stated earlier all the diversion stuff may not be necessary on a deep V boat. However,  my buddy's 'Bu is getting one of these systems and I could see me modifying his tabs to add the diversion stuff due to the relatively flat bottom of his boat.

It wouldn't cost me that much more to do my version of the Wakemakers GSA system. I just have to draw it out in some CAD software and have the laser cutter do its thing.

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