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joelmjohnson

New FI23 or used RI237

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joelmjohnson    13

Hello all,

I just joined the forum as Im looking to trade my MB Sport on a Centurion.  We were originally planning on ordering a FI23 with a 409 motor and no downfire optioned out to $100k boat show pricing.  But as I search I find that a used RI237 can be had for similar money with more options. The 237 im considering is a 2016 with 120 hrs nearly every option and the H6 450hp motor at $99k.   Any opinion to help sway me either way? Boat will primarily be used for surfing in Colorado.

Thanks

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h20king    795
33 minutes ago, joelmjohnson said:

Hello all,

I just joined the forum as Im looking to trade my MB Sport on a Centurion.  We were originally planning on ordering a FI23 with a 409 motor and no downfire optioned out to $100k boat show pricing.  But as I search I find thalott a used RI237 can be had for similar money with more options. The 237 im considering is a 2016 with 120 hrs nearly every option and the H6 450hp motor at $99k.   Any opinion to help sway me either way? Boat will primarily be used for surfing in Colorado.

Thanks

FI  all day. It has the new hull  where as the ri did not get it tell this year. I have surfed the ri's and was underwhelmed. Nice boat just does not surf as well as the opti v hull 

Edited by h20king

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wheels    151

If you’re looking at a used ri I would be looking at 17’s not 16’. They changed the shaft angle on the 17 to be able to accept larger diameter props which makes the surf rpm’s much lower and the prop angle increases efficiency and wave. The opti v Hull is more a wakeboarding change to the hull to Be able to have a clean wakeboard wake on both sides at lower speeds for beginners. I would go fi before a 16 ri but if you can find a 17 ri in your budget then it comes down to which boat you like better. Demo both. 

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wheels    151
2 hours ago, h20king said:

FI  all day. It has the new hull  where as the ri did not get it tell this year. I have surfed the ri's and was underwhelmed. Nice boat just does not surf as well as the opti v hull 

That’s a bold statement and a little misleading to someone new to centurion boats. While I understand your new boat stoke, beautiful boat by the way, congrats. A little far stretched to say the the ri surf wave is underwhelming to the new fi. 

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h20king    795

is that what you got out of it? The new opti v hull puts out a better surf wake. The new ri's have the opti v hull as well. Given the two choices a 16 ri with the old hull vs the new fi with the opti v hull is a no brainer. I have surfed the older style ri's and they are good but not as good as the new ones. I also look at resale. When something gets discontinued it looses value. As far as options and finish it's the ri. If surf is first it's the fi. Remember op is asking about a 16 ri vs a18 fi. 

Edited by h20king

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h20king    795

Also not saying the 16 ri is underwhelming compared to the fi as I don't know it's capabilities yet. But have surfed the 16 ri and was underwhelmed with the wake in general. Remember 16 was the first year for the ri

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Nick213    586

Just popped a bag of popcorn, this might get interesting.

  • Haha 3

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joelmjohnson    13

Thanks for the replies replies. The prop angle was one of my concerns also and I haven't located a 17 that the wife will check off on (color wise). We're really leaning toward the FI.

Question #2 

Is down fire worth the coin? After the discount looks like it would add $5900 to the cost vs $3000 est to add wetsounds tower speakers, amp and sub to the base audio setup.

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wheels    151
4 minutes ago, joelmjohnson said:

Thanks for the replies replies. The prop angle was one of my concerns also and I haven't located a 17 that the wife will check off on (color wise). We're really leaning toward the FI.

Question #2 

Is down fire worth the coin? After the discount looks like it would add $5900 to the cost vs $3000 est to add wetsounds tower speakers, amp and sub to the base audio setup.

I would definitely recommend not ordering the Downfire system. I ordered without and added four exile surf 9’s and two exile 30.2 amps for less than 1/3 the price.mine still came with the sub which I replace anyway. Look at their deals section for discounts. Wetsounds are great also just a little more money and harder to find deals on. Also keep in mind you get 6.5” interior speakers instead of 8” when you don’t order the downfires, of course those are changeable also. 

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wheels    151
1 hour ago, h20king said:

is that what you got out of it? The new opti v hull puts out a better surf wake. The new ri's have the opti v hull as well. Given the two choices a 16 ri with the old hull vs the new fi with the opti v hull is a no brainer. I have surfed the older style ri's and they are good but not as good as the new ones. I also look at resale. When something gets discontinued it looses value. As far as options and finish it's the ri. If surf is first it's the fi. Remember op is asking about a 16 ri vs a18 fi. 

What I really get out of it is marketing 101. These companys always gotta be coming up with something better every year and telling us that it’s that much better than the previous model. That’s what gets us buying new boats every year or 2 and wanting the upgrade but how much difference is it really? Sure they will do tests and show you videos of how much better it is.  For example they are saying that the opti v hull is 50% more fuel efficient than the older hull, not entirely true. These figures were based off the 16 with a different prop angle and smaller diameter and more aggressive pitch running at 4400 to 4800 rpm surf speeds. It turns out that the 17 they say behind the scenes is actually only 25% less fuel efficient than the new 18 with opti v hull. I still don’t believe it as I’m getting right around the 5gph in my 17 ri237 fully loaded with lead. Even if it is true, so you’re gonna save 1.25 gph. We are talking $300 to $400 a season. As for surf wave I will wait and see till I ride an 18 ri237 this year if I can notice any difference, something tells me it won’t make my riding any better. I just can’t see the wave getting that much firmer or longer or more lip from changing the very rear side section of the hull. Now I can tell you that switching from my 23lsv with surfgate to my ri237 there was a noticeable difference. 

As for resale which is a great point we have no idea how the ri value will hold up as it’s a brand new model and really the jury is still out on the ri. If you go onto  tmc they will tell you how terrible it is holding up as they see these boats being advertised at 100k used. Not sure what prices these guys think one can be bought for but if my boat is still worth 100k Used I am very happy. As for things changing and becoming discontinued and less popular there is a market for everything and with new boat prices raising at the rate they have been every year it’s been keeping the used market strong. Just look at what a pre surfgate boat still sells for. Pretty close to what it originally sold for if not right on. 

Sorry @Nick213 not looking to start an argument just a good discussion which has been hard to find on the site lately and hopefully help the op make the decision that’s best for him. H20 has some very good points. Hope the popcorn is still good. 

Edited by wheels

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RhuntIII    557

Back in 2016 we chartered Ashley's 237 and the wave was pretty epic. I was very impressed with both wave and boat. Even my 233 puts out a pretty epic wave and that boat has been discontinued for a while now. Now as far as fuel economy, driveshaft angles and hull changes I won't comment because I know little about that but what I do know is this boat had plenty of power,  awesome sound system (downfire) and created a huge ridable wave. 

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h20king    795

New hull puts out a cleaner wake and runs less rpms. The hull is that much different. Look at all the 257 reviews . Fist boat with the opti v and gets rave reviews. I could have bought a left over 17 ri for not much more than the fi. My thoughts though once you cross the 100k mark you are selling to a different market. If they can afford 100k more than likely they can just buy new. Just because you see boats listed used at 100k plus does not mean that's what they sell for.

 

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wheels    151
1 hour ago, h20king said:

New hull puts out a cleaner wake and runs less rpms. The hull is that much different. Look at all the 257 reviews . Fist boat with the opti v and gets rave reviews. I could have bought a left over 17 ri for not much more than the fi. My thoughts though once you cross the 100k mark you are selling to a different market. If they can afford 100k more than likely they can just buy new. Just because you see boats listed used at 100k plus does not mean that's what they sell for.

 

Cleaner wake? So we are talking wakeboarding? I agreed that the opti v hull is designed to clean up the wake at lower wakeboard speeds. Op never mentioned wakeboarding. The hull is not that much different, like I said it is just the rear corners that were changed. Ask @Bawshogg he was at the factory when they were changing the molds. Now if they changed the draft or the Weight or the freeboard I would have an easier time believing it would have any dramatic effect on the surf wave. These things just have not been done. 

My dealer gets traded In At least a dozen if not more one year old g23’s every year, 150k boats and they always sell all of them. So there’s a lot of people with the means to buy new that thinks it’s a good idea to buy a one year old model 

comparing a fi and a used ri would be a very personal choice and I think the quality of the surf wave would not be one of the deciding factors. 

 

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h20king    795
1 hour ago, wheels said:

Cleaner wake? So we are talking wakeboarding? I agreed that the opti v hull is designed to clean up the wake at lower wakeboard speeds. Op never mentioned wakeboarding. The hull is not that much different, like I said it is just the rear corners that were changed. Ask @Bawshogg he was at the factory when they were changing the molds. Now if they changed the draft or the Weight or the freeboard I would have an easier time believing it would have any dramatic effect on the surf wave. These things just have not been done. 

My dealer gets traded In At least a dozen if not more one year old g23’s every year, 150k boats and they always sell all of them. So there’s a lot of people with the means to buy new that thinks it’s a good idea to buy a one year old model 

comparing a fi and a used ri would be a very personal choice and I think the quality of the surf wave would not be one of the deciding factors. 

 

Yes they changed the hull a ton. Click on my link and look at the pics. I take it you must have a 16 so understandably you are upset. Not sure what you want me to ask Brandon. You do know he sold his 257 right? Talked with him at the boat show and would not be surprised if he was in a fi this year. If you don't believe go demo the proof is on the water. The surf wake the opti puts out is amazing and better than the 16 ri. Your arguments are silly. I don't buy a new boat every two years looking for the latest and greatest we buy because of the hours we log. If the op uses his boat often he will get a year of use and be out of hours and three model years old. Ever tried to sell a boat with 400+ hours? I just went through this. New ri, leftover ri or new fi.

Edited by h20king

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Darkside    249

 The 2016 237 is a lot different than the 2018 Fi23.  Personally I think the Fi23 is the best looking boat on the market right now.  Both have strengths and weaknesses.   I agree 2016 237 would be a tough sell, 2017 237 maybe, 2018 has better warranty 1000 hours vs 500.  

Downside is 2018 CATS is optional, pre-2017 standard.  CATS is awesome, however most will skip that check box.  I personally love the depth of the RI and would have a hard time going back to less freeboard.   

Downfire is fantastic,  yes you can roll your own for less $$.  However downfire sounds great,  comes with LED's, Zone control,  and everything is under factory warranty.  Plus it's done when you pick the boat up,  so no additional expense.   My significant other has a huge issue spending thousands on upgrades right after delivery.   So factory system is easy sell,  aftermarket not so much. 

 

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wheels    151
13 minutes ago, h20king said:

Yes they changed the hull a ton. Click on my link and look at the pics. I take it you must have a 16 so understandably you are upset. Not sure what you want me to ask Brandon. You do know he sold his 257 right? Talked with him at the boat show and would not be surprised if he was in a fi this year. If you don't believe go demo the proof is on the water. The surf wake the opti puts out is amazing and better than the 16 ri. Your arguments are silly. I don't buy a new boat every two years looking for the latest and greatest we buy because of the hours we log. If the op uses his boat often he will get a year of use and be out of hours and three model years old. Ever tried to sell a boat with 400+ hours? I just went through this. New ri, leftover ri or new fi.

No I have a 17 ri like I posted, I explicitly did not go with a 16 because of the prop size issues. So I am not upset at all and absolutely love my boat, every aspect about it, surf wave included which of course was a big part of my decision to go with the ri but by far not the only one, there is many factors that go into buying a boat as I’m sure you know. I’m  really not making this about what boat I have. It was your statement about the opti v hull and making it sound like it was the best thing since sliced bread, maybe I read into it wrong. 

Now you bringing up the hours put on a boat and where he may be for resale a few years down the road is the best argument I have heard from you telling him to buy a fi over a 16 ri. Remember all I said to him was “if” he could find a 17 ri close to his budget it may be a worth looking into. Obviously he likes the ri, we do not know which he likes better but if it is the fi then why is he even considering an ri for the same price?

 

All I was referring to with Brandon was he was at the factory when they were changing the molds for the 18 ri with the opti v hull and he was also saying it was just the rear sides of the hull. not sure what I can see about the opti v hull from your boat pics over the 16 or 17 hull? Please tell me what these ton of changes are on the opti v hull?

Even @BoardCo has posted that there is very little difference between an 17 and 18 ri for surf wave and they are a dealer who wants to push the new model years. Others who have no skin in the game who have ridden both have said they can tell no difference. 

 

 

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h20king    795

The hull is no longer just a V hull. The v has two completely different angles and if you look on the bottom there is a triangular shape that flows in the direction of the corners.  They say it still has the same smooth ride but have not had enough time with the new hull to say if that part is true. The new hull  is completely different then anything Centurion has done before. I have owned nothing but fineline boats going back to 98 so not just talking out  my a**

Edited by h20king

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stoked    1,042

Man I wish I could predict lottery numbers as well as I predicted this conversation. 

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Nick213    586

X2, I even called it. Can we tell it's dead winter or what!

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h20king    795
30 minutes ago, Nick213 said:

X2, I even called it. Can we tell it's dead winter or what!

Ya think? I thought it was a fairly civil discussion 

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wheels    151
4 minutes ago, h20king said:

Ya think? I thought it was a fairly civil discussion 

Agreed and at least there was some content. The dead of winter does bring out the boredom, I had to go visit my boat the other day in storage just to get a quick fix next time I will bring a 6 pack :cheers:

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Nick213    586
23 minutes ago, h20king said:

Ya think? I thought it was a fairly civil discussion 

I agree, nicely done H.

Edited by Nick213

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BoardCo    112

Couple things I will throw in here on the Opti-V hull vs. the original Ri hull - this would also include the FS and SV hulls as well:

The surf wave is pretty similar, just easier to dial in. The wave is not a big reason to go with the Opti-V hull compared to a 16/17 Ri237.

The benefits of the Opti-V hull compared to a 16/17 Ri are the following:

Wakeboard wake - if you wakeboard this one is HUUUUGE. The old Ri hull is decent, the Opti-V hull dishes out one of the best wakeboard wakes at any ability level on the planet.

Fuel economy - A definite improvement

Power - Not a huge impact, but there is a noticeable improvement in hole shot on the Opti-V hull

Driveability - The new hull drives and handles significantly better at both higher and lower speeds.

Ski Wake - Once again, if you ski, the ski wake is noticeably improved.

 

Things that are just as good on the 16/17 Ri237 compared to the Opti-V Hull:

Rough Water Ride

Hydrofoiling

Tubing

Partying

Barefooting - both are equally terrible for barefooting

Pissing off fishermen

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h20king    795

Don t think the 16 should be compared to the 17. The prop shaft angle change made the 17 a better boat. The 16 was a pig it burned through gas ran at super high rpms and at times would struggle to get to speed. The factory is always getting better. 

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