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Woolf

2017 S238 stock ballast times

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Woolf    0

So, we just picked up or first ever surf boat, and we love it!  We did upgrade the PNP bags to 1100s based on what I've read here and the fact that we all ride goofy.  We were able to dial in a decent wave, and my wife and I were both able to drop the rope on the first day. I did notice something odd when I went to adjust the ballast times in the touch screen. My starboard quick full time was 30 seconds shorter than port. Is there a default setting for everything?  I did adjust it to match port, but how do I know the hard tanks are full?  Is it possible to overfill?  TIA

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MFaso    56

I'm new too and as far as I can tell, you really can't tell other than knowing your boat. For example, I fill my hard tanks when we swim so my kids can get on and off the platform easier. I know what my platform and wave looks like when they are full and I know it takes about 2 minutes 30 seconds to fill them.

As long as you aren't moving it's filling whether you are on fill or empty. I have read some saying they can hear the air exiting the vents but I've tried putting my ear right up to it when it's filling and I hear nothing, and I'm sure people are seeing me saying, "what is that idiot doing?" lol

Maybe someone else has more info? @Cwazy1 @H20 KING

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Cwazy1    91

1. You cannot overfill hard tanks. But I usually fill the hard tanks after the pnp are 50+%. This ensures that the hard tanks are as low in the water as possible and thus can fill as much as possible (since its a gravity fed system)

2. For your upgraded bags, I've set mine to about 8:30 for each of my 1000 bags. This ensures its full, but not about to break your lockers full. 

3. Its complicated to calculate the total time to fill and drain the hard tanks. The amount of flow through the open valve is calculated using gravity. But if you insist, here is how you would do it. 

Each of the rear hard tanks is 500 pounds, which is about 60 gallons of water. 

Using the Hazen Williams calculator for gravity fed pipe flow, we assume a 3" pipe diameter for the valterra valves. Then we assume about 3" worth of drop. This is the height difference between the lake water level, and the TOP of the hard tank. I'm estimating this using the fact that the exit port on the QF is at the BOTTOM of the hard tank and that difference is approx 6". Half that and you're probably fairly close.

This gives us a gravity flow of approx 70 GPM. 

This results in an estimate of just under 1 minute for fill and drain.

 

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Woolf    0

WOW, Cwazy1 just hit us with some serious science.  Thanks!

 

So, I contacted tech support yesterday at Supreme and got the following:

 

QF

-Fill = 2:30

-Drain = 1:30

 

Stock PNP

-Fill = 6:30

-Drain = 5:30

 

Bow (Tank and Bag the same)

-Fill = 5:30

-Drain = 4:30

 

I'm still not convinced everything is all full, specifically the hard tanks.  I will play with it when I get a chance.  Unfortunately we are having too much fun learning to surf to really have time to figure it out.  Tech said that even the QF tanks will pee out of the vents when full.  Not sure I'm buying that though.

 

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Nolance    18

You can actually feel/hear the air being rushed out of the vents, forward of your windshield when filling your hard tanks.  I would agree with Cwazy1 that a minute is right.

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Cwazy1    91
6 hours ago, Woolf said:

WOW, Cwazy1 just hit us with some serious science.  Thanks!

 

So, I contacted tech support yesterday at Supreme and got the following:

 

QF

-Fill = 2:30

-Drain = 1:30

 

Stock PNP

-Fill = 6:30

-Drain = 5:30

 

Bow (Tank and Bag the same)

-Fill = 5:30

-Drain = 4:30

 

I'm still not convinced everything is all full, specifically the hard tanks.  I will play with it when I get a chance.  Unfortunately we are having too much fun learning to surf to really have time to figure it out.  Tech said that even the QF tanks will pee out of the vents when full.  Not sure I'm buying that though.

 

Sounds like the ideology at the factory is to over fill and allow it to flow through the vent port.

I do agree that you should be careful of drain times. Thats something you want to be precise on. Running the reversible pumps empty will eventually kill the impellers. They're not built to run dry, which is why Supreme went with the timers on the '17+. Previously people burnt out their ballast pump impellers often due to forgetting the pumps are still on. 

And yeah, complete bs on the QF tanks overflowing. The only way you could do that is if you had the QF open, and then put the boat in reverse and went 10+mph. 

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Woolf    0

So I guess the biggest question would be how do I know when the front hard tank is empty then?  

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Cwazy1    91
1 hour ago, Woolf said:

So I guess the biggest question would be how do I know when the front hard tank is empty then?  

I don't think there is a quantitative way of knowing - only a qualitative method. I always leave the QF tanks as the last to drain. My swim platform is usually touching the water with the QF tanks full. With them empty, the platform is a few inches off the water. 

A few boats ago I had a calabria, which employed a similar system of QF, but it was 350 pounds per side instead of 500. Same size tubing and port though, 3". That system would whistle when it was empty. It always took less than 20 seconds to drain them. I really can't imagine 500 pounds to take more than one minute. 

Edited by Cwazy1

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Cwazy1    91

EDIT: read your post wrong

You can figure out your front hard tank drain time by doing this... 

1. fill it all the way full until it spills out of one of the vents

2. set the drain timer to be 10 minutes

3. hit the drain button

4. start a timer on your phone

5. open your engine hatch cover

6. listen for when the pump runs dry. There is a very different audible sound that comes from a reversible pump running wet and running dry. It gets MUCH louder and becomes a higher pitch sound. When you get that sound consistently, you will be empty. It'll likely run partially dry and wet for a few seconds before its completely empty. 

7. when pump starts screaming from being run dry, stop timer

8. set new time for drain on front hard tank. 

9. set new time for fill to be same as drain.

10. test fill time, adjust +10s, or -10s as needed. Filling should take a few seconds more than draining. 

Edited by Cwazy1

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MFaso    56

There is NO overfill out the side for the QF tanks. I don't even think that would happen running 10mph backwards, if that's even possible with all that weigh in the boat... Haha whoever told you that is either confused or a schmuck. :)

I was just out tonight and again, I hear nothing from my vents... I tried listening but nothing. I go by my platform compared to the water level like cwazy does... 

Heavy wind tonight so used more trim tab and ran with the wind but still got a good workout.

IMG_20170822_210544_01.jpg

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Woolf    0

Thanks for all the help guys.  I've pretty much got my bag/tank timing perfect now.  Next on the list is to fix the regular side wave.  I know everyone seems to say that they surf better regular than goofy, but my goofy wave is way better.  I think it is because 90% of the people I go with are goofy, so I've spent the most time on that.  More dialing will be needed for the regular side for sure.  Anyway you look at it, I've never shirked so many responsibilities to play with something ever in my life before.  Guess I must be having fun!

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NorSask    16

If you go through some of the previous threads you should be able to find a regular side setting that will work for you. You'll have it dialed in no time! I've been in camp at work for the past 7 days and still have 5 more to go so I'm living vicariously through you guys for now LOL. Cant wait to get home and get some more hours on the lake before the weather turns to crap.

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RhuntIII    557

Excellent work there Cwazy. I like the idea of slamming the boat in reverse while filling the hard tanks. lol.

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Cwazy1    91
4 hours ago, RhuntIII said:

Excellent work there Cwazy. I like the idea of slamming the boat in reverse while filling the hard tanks. lol.

haha me too, need to ensure that it fills 110% full all the way to the vent port out the gunwale 

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