ZR409 oil change

[InfinitySurf 302]

So I was planning to change oil every 50-60hrs....tho I know it can probably go to 100. I am just anal about stuff like that and since I prefer to do my own maintaince, the only cost to me are the materials and my time. I already have the oil, filter, etc from Bakes. 

The question is that I don't see any easy way to get to the drain under the motor...are most of you using an extractor? 2014 SV244...with ZR409 engine. Have about 40hrs so far this year and plan to hit 50 by end of weekend...so wondering if I need to order something (Have heard the plastic tubing can get "stuck" in engine and not interested in anything risky...so something fool proof is preferred, even if it costs a little extra). Can anyone share what they have had best results with to extract/change the oil in this engine? Thanks

[Cwazy1 89]

I use an extractor. My ex3 engine has a 'oil drain hose' that is connected to the bottom of the oil pan and runs up. Its pretty wide diameter so nothing will get stuck. I'm pretty sure the new 409's have this hose, its capped with a yellow plug and usually zip tied close to one of the headers- mine is on starboard header between header and the plastic top cover.

Mityvac 7201 is my favorite extractor. 

http://amzn.to/2tVXP7m

And I use this oil filter extractor to make things a bit easier

http://amzn.to/2sPOSwV

[CO Surfer 289]

Get yourself a 12V Jabsco oil extractor.  You will be kicking yourself later if you get a manual pump one.  It has positive and negative clips that attach to your battery and a 12V pump that pulls the oil out of either your dip stick tube or the oil drain hose which is likely clipped to your engine by the thermostat.  

You still need to get the oil warmed up before changing it.

[CO Surfer 289]

Use a ziplock bag on your filter.  Helps to wear gloves.

You can see the Jabsco extractor in the cardboard box.

Edited July 8, 2017 by CO Surfer

[InfinitySurf 302]

Thank you both....do you think the drain hose, or the dipstick tube allow you to get the most old oil out of engine?

[Cwazy1 89]

12 hours ago, InfinitySurf said:

Thank you both....do you think the drain hose, or the dipstick tube allow you to get the most old oil out of engine?

drain hose for sure

[InfinitySurf 302]

I found that drain hose you were talking about..clipped right next to the filter and has yellow cap on it. Looks very simple that way...screw on the extractor and remove all oil. I ordered an extractor and filter removal tool that goes on ratchet like you showed (I have been wanting one of those for my truck anyway).

[Dreamer 96]

I just did a mid season oil change in my 409 and put half a litre of too much oil in. Any issues with this?

 

Its funny, my 4.0l V8 car engine requires nine litres of oil but the 6.0l V8 boat engine takes less than four.

[Jlagos 23]

PCM has sent out service alerts for this concern and they state it must be drained to proper levels. Apparently the problem of overfilling the oil capacity is exacerbated by listing the boat. I don't know the year of your boat but this was the service alert in 2011. 

http://www.pleasurecraft.com/serviceupdate/sap2011-01.pdf

Also for some, they need to replace the original oil dipstick with a newer version. Fortunately, my engine did not require this. Simplistic fix just need to obtain proper dipstick. 

http://www.pleasurecraft.com/serviceupdate/sup2011-02.pdf

[Dreamer 96]

Good to know, thanks. Mine is a 2014 and has the newer dipstick. I will pull some oil.

[DrNate 426]

I always put a full 5 quarts and never had an issue.  Mine is a 2011 with the new dipstick

[InfinitySurf 302]

I put exactly 5 quarts in mine....and it read slightly below the line that shows you that you are in correct range. I put in another 1/2 quart....and its perfectly in the middle now. I know its better to run slightly less than more (they warn you about over filling in manual and the sticker on engine)...so I was trying to get a good middle ground.

BTW, I ended up getting an oil extractor with 3/4" hose fitting instead of the 1/2" that boat has. I cut 2' off a hose with male end, screwed that into extractor....then took the cut hose and hose clamped it around the engine oil drain hose line and it worked like a dream. 5mins to drain all oil. Very happy with how it worked. I got a Jabsco hand pump since I will only have to do it 2 maybe 3 times a year and its so quick. Think I am gonna go to changing oil every 40hrs since oil was a bit blacker than I would like after 50hrs and I know that engine must be straining pushing close to 12k lbs thru water including the ballast. Cheap insurance.

Has anyone else gone to synthetic? I used the recommended 15-40 rotella....but my dealer said he used 10-30 Mobile 1 synthetic. I was looking to maybe switch to Amsoil since they have a heavy duty 15-40 synthetic. If I do that....would I still use the regular oil filter, or do I need to get a special synthetic oil filter? (I noticed in my manual, they say you CAN switch to synthetic after the 1st 100hrs). I am right at 230hrs now.

[CO Surfer 289]

I believe it says they don't "recommend" synthetic.  I believe that's more to do with PCM not wanting to see people go to extended intervals.  

I have never heard of a synthetic oil filter.  Not sure what the difference would be.

[Jlagos 23]

You can switch to synthetic but as infinity surf stated it will not alter the change interval on the oil. Especially pushing that much ballast the oil will take a beating. I previously read a thread that Indmar released addressing  this question and mentioned how the oil will shear down to a lower grade during use which is why it was important to use a heavy duty motor oil such as the 15w40. So I'm surprised the dealer is using a grade not recommended by the manufacturer and I would assume that could void a warranty claim. If your going to change to synthetic may as well grab a filter advertised for synthetic which I think supposedly filter out a higher % of particles. I'll search for the thread I mentioned. It was at another site. I always find it interesting how the oil pressure gradually decreases (some) on the oil pressure gauge as it starts to heat up but never budges on the cars and trucks I've had.

[InfinitySurf 302]

Interesting, I have never noticed my oil pressure come down after running a while. Stays around 40 at idle...and jumps to 60 when revved up. I will have to pay more attention tho.

I know when I bought synthetic oil for my cars...there was always a special filter. Figured the same with boat tho I don't know the difference between them. Should probably become more edjucated on that before I decide to switch.

[CO Surfer 289]

Pretty sure it's marketing garbage.  Makes absolutely no sense why you would need to filter synthetic oil more than regular oil.

[rhino89523 34]

I went to a Chevron oil class and stayed at Holiday Inn so I'm like an oil pro...JK...anyway the class was put on by Chevron so I had to make sure I viewed it through that lens but the guy made a lot of sense so he didn't do the greatest job selling his product. He basically said if you run a certified oil with the proper viscosity for the machine you are putting it in and change it at the recommended intervals it makes little difference what you run and will not void your warranty (look up the Harley lawsuit they tried to spec only Harley oil not a rating, they lost the suit and now spec a rating) He also said viscosity and thermal breakdown that you see advertised is essentially a myth that would require a station wagon pulling a loaded semi trailer to mars and back uphill both ways to make happen(that said we are running these boats under some serious loads). The true culprit of oil break down was particulates and contamination, both of which can be taken care of by changing your oil within proper service intervals.

All that said oil is so cheap and the gap between the price of dinosaur guts and synthetics is almost a non issue if you feel better about the engineered stability of synthetics go for it. The filters are mostly marketing unless you are talking about one rated down to really tight on microns like the Mercedes Fleece filters. Mercedes specs a 10000 mile oil change or annual and get extended service intervals by filtering to a smaller microns but keeping flow by using fleece instead of paper. other manufacturers have followed suit.

I personally would just change oil often, it's cheap and we are pushing on these boats with a lot of weight and pushing a boat through water is essentially driving uphill all the time.

I use that Mitivac, warm up the motor, couple pulls on the mitivac handle and walk away or work on something else, 5 minutes you hear it sucking air and you are done. Since I do all my own service there is no need for a filter wrench, spin it to snug and then throw a quarter turn I believe is spec, I probably over tighten filters a little but I can always get a filter I did off by hand.

I mess around with synthetics on some of my stuff, I have noticed 2 things. If you put it in old stuff it will leak, if it has a small leak it will be a big one with synthetics. Second older motors (especially pushrod motors) the synthetics seem to make the motor noisier on the top end. On my 98,000 mile Harley I ran synthetics since about 10,000 miles, on a trip I had an issue and dumped my oil, had to refill with Rotella....top end was significantly quieter. I have torn the top end apart on that bike a few times to modify and everything in there always looks great, so even if it is noisy it is doing its job of protecting metal to metal interfaces.

Edited August 9, 2017 by rhino89523

[PacNW 0]

So my first attempt to change my oil on my 2014 FX 44. Reading below it is clear that an oil extractor is the way to go. Question, removed the cap on the oil drain hose and not a drop came out? Is any other valve that needs to be open? Also, there is no port in the Hull to put the drain hose through? 

 

[Jlagos 23]

Interesting you say that. The 1st time I changed the oil had the same problem. No oil came out despite lowering the hose as low as possible. Inserted extractor tube and again nothing. I had my son turn on the engine for about 2 seconds and the oil easily drained out. No problems since. I have placed a female thread on the extractor hose which screws onto the engine drain hose and not a drop of oil gets spilt. Some people are able to thread the drain hose through the hull plug opening. Didn't work with my boat. No other valve or cap to open.

[InfinitySurf 302]

The biggest key to a fairly easy oil change....is making sure the engine is warmed up first. Cold oil will be thick and hard to get out. I warm it up (I use the oil drain hose and also made myself an adapter even tho my extractor has a hose I can push up into the oil drain hose, I just find the adapter creats a little better suction/seal and I can get more oil out). At first, I also loosen the dipstick (pop it up a couple inches so its not "sealed down" and also remove the engine oil fill cap, I have found that allows the oil to drain easier at first since no "suction" is created is created inside the engine, which could keep it from flowing out the bottom as easily. Once I have most of the oil out, I close them to create more suction so I am not sucking air and getting as much oil out of engine as possible tho its impossible to get every drop out.

You CAN pull oil drain hose thru the rear bilge drain plug and not use extractor (5 gallon bucket to catch oil...but on many boats the rear trim tab is in the way and the oil drain hose is not long enough to get around it without adding some sort of extension....if you do it this way, also be prepared to let it sit and drain overnight since its a SLOW process doing it that way since its literally gravity, and as the engine oil cools down it will come out slower and slower.