L96 Engine proven?

[lake life 0]

Hi guys, I'm looking at buying a s202 Supreme and am unsure which motor to put in it. Is the L96 a good proven engine?

 

Thanks, Jeff

[Cwazy1 89]

The s202 is such a small boat.. Was there a reason you needed the extra power over the ex3?

 

The L96 is just the 409, which has been around for ages.

[luluzer 50]

I agree with cwazy, the ex3 should be plenty for your 202. If you did want to step up to a 409, Boardco has a post about running the 409 with an ri217 at elevation (6000') and weighted (4950 lbs) and with people and he said the 409 was more than enough.

 

Not sure if power was the info you are seeking. All the supreme engines seem to have good reputations for reliability.

[Race City Marine 60]

For only $750 more I am not sure why someone would go with the EX3 over the 409, even if it's a small boat. I bet the weight and dimensions of the "bigger" engine is the same as the "smaller" one anyway. The stroke is probably just a tad longer. For a little bit over 1% more on the cost of the boat, go big!

[Cwazy1 89]

Sure its "only" $750 more, but if you factor in...

 

1. If you only roll with a small crew of 3-4 for 2 hour sets 3 times a week

2. If you're trying to maximize your fuel efficiency

3. If you're at sea level

4. If you're not trying to spend money on non-necessities

 

Its pretty logical to stick with ex3.

[Race City Marine 60]

Sure its "only" $750 more, but if you factor in...

 

1. If you only roll with a small crew of 3-4 for 2 hour sets 3 times a week

2. If you're trying to maximize your fuel efficiency

3. If you're at sea level

4. If you're not trying to spend money on non-necessities

 

Its pretty logical to stick with ex3.

 

Bah. Very logical, but I still don't like it. I counter...

 

1. Better resale on boat with 409hp vs. 340

2. Fuel economy not that different

3. Less wear on the more powerful engine, thus longer life

4. You could end up moving to a place above sea level

5. You could consider the whole boat a "non-necessity"

6. What kind of person passes up significantly more power for very cheap?

[Cwazy1 89]

Haha, I enjoy this back and fourth pro/con list we're making here.. I'll refute your points

 

1. I've always been a bit skeptical of this, I've found that as enough time goes by (around 6-10 years), people start to forget what is the upgraded engine and which is the stock engine. The price difference also narrows exponentially as depreciation happens on the value of the boat overall. The $750 added cost up front might only be valued at $200 difference 6-8 years down the line.

 

2. Well, its a 5.7 vs a 6.0, for simplicity and argument, if we're assuming that an engine sucks up linear amount of gas per volume as volume increases, you'd assume that fuel consumption would be 5% more on the 6.0. Might not be noticeable on the day to day, but it is an extra 2.5 gallons per 50g tank. Over the lifetime of the boat (assuming a rebuild at 1000h, and you're surfing at about 5gph), you're consuming 250 gallons more, equating to $750 in added fuel.

 

3. This is a fair argument, but of course its a non linear line for wear on engine and engine RPM. The higher the RPMs the exponentially more wear over time if consistently ran. Not sure where surf rpm speeds sit on this line.

 

4. True. You could do that. You could also have a potential buyer in a high elevation who might otherwise not be interested in your boat with the smaller engine

 

5. moot point lol.

 

6. I do think most dealers have more ex3 stock than l96.

[lake life 0]

Thanks so much for all the feed back

 

I was looking at the mondo Moomba with the Rapter engine and wanted to be comparable in boat weight and hp (3800 lb and about 400hp) I really liked the Rapter engine with all the torque. ( not sure the torque of the 409?)

 

I like the extra power and it seems from the feedback that both engines will be reliable.

 

The other concern I have with the 409 is if it is still easy enough to work on such as replacing the water pump impeller, etc (I am assuming it is bigger and fits in the boat tighter)

 

It seems that the Supreme 202 is a better made boat than the Mondo (I will be using mostly for recreational slalom and surfing)

 

The comments have been greatly appreciated

 

Jeff

[Cwazy1 89]

Supra and Moomba have kept their old tranny gear ratios of close to 1.5:1, whereas Centurion and Supreme are at a 1.72:1

 

This essentially means better torque distribution directly to the prop and thus yielding better get on plane performance.. The Supra and Moomba have enlarged the engine to keep up with the bigger and heavier hulls whereas the Centurion/Supreme has optimized the transmission gear ratio.

 

I would imagine that the smaller ex3 would be better for you anyways due to not only having enough power, but also saving you the weight difference in the smaller engine. - especially since you're skiing

 

That being said the old ZR409's were difficult to reach maintenance parts. These new L96's are so easy and accessible. I have once complained and said that there is a ton of wasted space around the engine that could otherwise have been incorporated into the side lockers, but having then realized how easy it is to reach every maintenance part have taken back my complaint!

Edited February 8, 2017 by Cwazy1

[Race City Marine 60]

Ha! My comments again! (within quoted text)

 

Haha, I enjoy this back and fourth pro/con list we're making here.. I'll refute your points

 

1. I've always been a bit skeptical of this, I've found that as enough time goes by (around 6-10 years), people start to forget what is the upgraded engine and which is the stock engine. The price difference also narrows exponentially as depreciation happens on the value of the boat overall. The $750 added cost up front might only be valued at $200 difference 6-8 years down the line.

-I think people will still know the diff btw 409 and 340 HP...unless we go on the metric system lol

 

 

2. Well, its a 5.7 vs a 6.0, for simplicity and argument, if we're assuming that an engine sucks up linear amount of gas per volume as volume increases, you'd assume that fuel consumption would be 5% more on the 6.0. Might not be noticeable on the day to day, but it is an extra 2.5 gallons per 50g tank. Over the lifetime of the boat (assuming a rebuild at 1000h, and you're surfing at about 5gph), you're consuming 250 gallons more, equating to $750 in added fuel.

-It is not linear usage. For example if you ran a manual transmission down a steep hill in 2nd gear (not touching gas pedal) vs neutral you would get better fuel economy even if you were running at 4K rpm in 2nd gear. Reason being that just because the engine is turning, doesn't mean that it is using gas. Gravity spinning the engine allows it achieve the necessary output to maintain the draw from the rest of the cars system, this a super tiny amount or no gas is injected into the cylinders.

 

3. This is a fair argument, but of course its a non linear line for wear on engine and engine RPM. The higher the RPMs the exponentially more wear over time if consistently ran. Not sure where surf rpm speeds sit on this line.

-of course it's a fair argument!

 

4. True. You could do that. You could also have a potential buyer in a high elevation who might otherwise not be interested in your boat with the smaller engine

 

5. moot point lol.

 

6. I do think most dealers have more ex3 stock than l96.

-well the 409 is new for this year. I think the 226 and def the 238 need the larger engine. I know I max out my H5 engine...now that is a great engine that I will miss, but it's expensive vs the 409.

 

Also I haven't checked but the 409 isn't necessarily bigger or heavier than the ex3. They may share the same block, the 409, just has shorter connecting rods thus bigger cylinders. I know the old merc 5.7 was the same size as the merc 6.2 on paper.

 

Valid or invalid arguments aside, I should confiscate your man card for arguing this much against getting a bigger engine!!!

Edited February 8, 2017 by Race City Marine

[Race City Marine 60]

Thanks so much for all the feed back

 

I was looking at the mondo Moomba with the Rapter engine and wanted to be comparable in boat weight and hp (3800 lb and about 400hp) I really liked the Rapter engine with all the torque. ( not sure the torque of the 409?)

 

I like the extra power and it seems from the feedback that both engines will be reliable.

 

The other concern I have with the 409 is if it is still easy enough to work on such as replacing the water pump impeller, etc (I am assuming it is bigger and fits in the boat tighter)

 

It seems that the Supreme 202 is a better made boat than the Mondo (I will be using mostly for recreational slalom and surfing)

 

The comments have been greatly appreciated

 

Jeff

Yea...I'm sure the raptor engine is the reason that Supreme had to come up with a cheap upgrade option. 410 is the torque number of the 409. & supreme is a darn better boat!

[Tommywalton1974 175]

Not sure about all these other numbers, if the L96 is the same as GMl96 it's beyond proven. Arguably one of the best pushrod engines ever produced. Light, reliable and powerful.

[MFaso 56]

Mine should be here any day now. I upgraded the engine for a few reasons.

 

1) The added cost doesn't change the payment much. It's hardly noticeable. If you can't afford the option then you probably shouldn't be buying this boat because you probably won't afford the gas bill for the season with either engine.

 

2) Although the boat depreciates,(Like everything else!) people will look at the bigger engine boat before the smaller. Not that you will get MORE $$$ but you will get more LOOKING. With that said, it adds value.

 

3) I'd like to think it's less strain on the larger engine to pick my fat a$$ up than the smaller, essentially extending the engine life and possible issues over time.

 

I won't list this as a reason because I never REALLY looked into this but I'd like to assume bigger engine equals more weight.(maybe only 50lbs? maybe less?) This may not be a factor outside of my mind. Maybe someone has the engine weight difference, but I can't find it. It's probably not specified although it SHOULD be since it seems like everyone care most about weight!

 

I'll post some pictures when mine comes.(this weekend maybe)

 

Mike

[BoardCo 110]

I definitely recommend the L96 in any Supreme regardless of elevation or setup. It is plenty of power for the S238 (and even works well on the Ri217 at elevation) and will make the S202 run like a bat out of hell. The L96 upgrade is minor cost but will reduce your overall fuel consumption for cruising and if you surf / wakeboard with the boat fully loaded.

 

That said, I would put the L96 in for no other reason than it would make a S202 boat an absolute blast to drive. Also, if you don't need your knees any more you can probably use the Quicksurf engaged on both sides to plane the boat to wakeboard speed with 5,000 lbs. of additional ballast.

[luluzer 50]

They make fake knees right?

[prorider17 30]

Regardless of what engine you go with, I'd really like to see your S202's surf wave! There are practically zero videos online of that boat. I really like its looks.

 

 

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