About to buy a 2017 S238...I have some questions

[MFaso 56]

Hi All,

 

Brand new to the forum. I'm about to buy a 2017 S238. It's my first surf boat. My family is myself, my wife, and 2 young kids. We are coming off another boat and just trying to figure out if I'm making the right choice.

 

We love the boat(but haven't been on the water in it). It's cold here now and boating season is over...

 

My dealer is telling me the S238 wave is awesome and it needs NOTHING extra. He is saying inexperienced people are why I'm reading that I'll need to add to the boat. In my mind, if I need to add anything, it's not a surf boat. Why build a boat that makes a wake that you can't surf and call it a surf boat? Is my thinking wrong? My current boat makes a wake but I can't surf it...what's the difference?

 

I've actually heard that Race city marina(who I do see posting here) has said that the S238 wave was just as good as the G23(150k boat?) wave...I hope Race city can come confirm or deny this was said and maybe even let us know if it's actually true. I'm not talking bells and whistles. I'm talking surfable out of the box or not with my family in the boat. NOT 10 people. Plain and simple.

 

Can I please hear from some owners and dealers who can honestly tell me the stock boat is going to surf fine before I spend a lot of money on a boat for surfing?

 

Any help is appreciated. I am having a really hard time between listening to the dealer and reading everything on the internet.

 

Thank you!

Mike

 

 

 

 

[Sparkycollier 32]

Youre going to need more weight. Unless you buy a Centurion RI which comes with ~5,000 lbs ballast, you'll need more weight (or 10-12 friends which is ... weight).

 

I demo'd a 2016 S238 and couldn't stay in the wave at all. I do believe they can make an amazing wave, but not stock with just the driver in the boat. I agree that the branding as "surf boat" is frustrating but it's just the way it is. IMHO none other than the Ri come with enough factory weight to make a legit wave.

[Cwazy1 89]

Your dealer is talking out his tush about 'only inexperienced people need more weight'. Its either the case that your dealer surfs on an 8 foot foamie or that the customer base he sells to is the casual weekend warrior. The active forum crowd here are going to be enthusiasts focused on progressing in the sport- usually requiring a very good setup.

 

The 238 is garbage out the box for surf wave. As many have said it has very good surf potential. There is a local company here who teaches beginners wakesurfing using a 238. He has stock ballast and about 300 pounds of lead. I rode on it once and had to be consistently pumping just to stay in the wave. But- none of his customers have ever complained about it. If your goal is to get from not being able to get up on the board to getting up, a small non-tuned wave is fine. If you're goal is to go from getting up to riding ropeless, it will be tougher. If you're goal is to go from ropeless to tricks, forget about it.

 

You'll need to firstly upgrade the stock plug n play sacks from the 500's to 750's. And then you'll have to either add 500-700 (combined port and starboard) of lead or 500-700 (combined port and starboard) of ballast bags under the seats. This honestly is not difficult to do and is fully worth the effort. A total cost of just about 500-700$ in ballast upgrades will get you from zero to awesome.

 

I'll be getting a 238 during winter and my plan is to run the NWBS upgraded bags (750 in lockers plumbed into 250 under the bench side seat.) as well as running an additional 300 in lead (split between port/starboard)

 

Then add your small crew and you'll have a decent wave.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Cwazy1

[MFaso 56]

Thanks guys. To me, if I'm NOT ropeless, I'm not wakesurfing. It's pretty simple. I can't believe dealers sell boats based on lies. I was told me and my family of 4(wife and 2 kids) would be all I needed in the boat. I don't want to have to round bodies up just to surf on MY 80k boat.

 

I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and it looks like i'll have some stipulations and maybe not do it. Why can't they make a boat that is ready out of the box? I don't need to have all that weight in th eboat when I'm not surfing. It's a waste. ..and I'm going to leave 500 lbs of lead on the dock and transfer it back and forth when I want to surf? haha...NO...

 

Any other replies are appreciated. I'd love to hear anyone saying their 2017 S238(top of the line supreme) is working fine out of the showroom floor because I love the boat.

 

Thanks!

[Bongo Fury 640]

Welcome to the Crew!

 

I can't speak specifically to the 238 or Ri as I have not been on either....I have been on this forum a while and the folks on this site are the 1%.... I have a 233 very dialed in and my wave positively will push anyone ropeless......I will say that in almost every case...on every boat...if you want to max out the wave you add extra weight of some type. Try searching the forums here....there is a ton of insight and info.

[Cwazy1 89]

I think it also has something to do with liability and what the manufacturer can actually sell the boat with. My local dealer chooses not to bring 'upgraded' ballast due to potential liability. I would imagine that if they increased ballast they would actually have to lower the seating capacity.. and for the most part the general public views seating capacity as a higher priority

 

And most people just keep lead in the boat. That would be a PITA to bring in and out every time.

 

I'm also going to be honest here, my friend has a '15 g25 and it is pretty bad out of the box.

 

Thanks guys. To me, if I'm NOT ropeless, I'm not wakesurfing. It's pretty simple. I can't believe dealers sell boats based on lies. I was told me and my family of 4(wife and 2 kids) would be all I needed in the boat. I don't want to have to round bodies up just to surf on MY 80k boat.

 

I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and it looks like i'll have some stipulations and maybe not do it. Why can't they make a boat that is ready out of the box? I don't need to have all that weight in th eboat when I'm not surfing. It's a waste. ..and I'm going to leave 500 lbs of lead on the dock and transfer it back and forth when I want to surf? haha...NO...

 

Any other replies are appreciated. I'd love to hear anyone saying their 2017 S238(top of the line supreme) is working fine out of the showroom floor because I love the boat.

 

Thanks!

 

Here is a similar thread to what we're talking about here:

 

http://www.centurioncrew.com/index.php/topic/11562-2016-s238-super-disappointed-with-it/

 

Except that this guy bought the boat already and is trying to maximize his wave

Edited November 18, 2016 by Cwazy1

[MFaso 56]

Many thanks again. After reading the earlier replies I went ahead and started making some calls. I called race city Marine and the guy there told me he has surfed it stock with no problems at all. He did add that more weight makes it better but he has surfed it many times stock with 3 guys on the boat and it was fine. Again though, they are a dealer. I'm not calling him a liar. He was super nice and understood my viewpoint.

 

So, I took it a step further. I called supreme and they had the local supreme rep call me back. I have to say, response time was sick. He called me within 15 minutes. Another real nice guy and seemed really honest. He said the spine plate for the 2017s fixed the out of the box issues with stock ballasts. He also added that the wave can get better with more weight. He said it was surfable right out of the box for sure but the upgraded weight would definitely increase it, however, it wasn't needed.

 

I'd really love to find someone(so far I haven't) who has an S238 that is surfing and having a blast without any mods in weight or 10 people in the boat. I meet with my local dealer tomorrow and am excited but we really need to talk a bout the "what if" the boat simply has no push. Maybe they agree to cover the ballast upgrade which looked like $1000 when I went to wake shaper and checked out the S238 options...

 

Anyone else with info, I'd love to hear from you before I spend this money on a SURF boat that is beautiful, but can't be surfed. I can get a TON of nice boats for this price that CAN'T be used to SURF.

 

Thanks again!

Mike

[DrNate 426]

I'll never forget how mad my wife was when we took our brand new boat out to the lake to surf for the first time. The wave was completely un-surfable. I was a little disappointed but I knew that you have to add extra ballast to any boat because the dealers refuse to take on the liability of adding any extra weight. I dare say you will find this with ANY boat, regardless of brand.

 

So if that is the reality, then you have 2 choices. Either buy a good surf boat (The S 238 has proven to be one) and add the extra ballast or don't buy a boat at all. It's frustrating, I agree with you but after you add the extra weight you will likely be blown away. I know I was with my now old Enzo

[Cwazy1 89]

The 'stinger' plate which is new for '17 is to fix the goofy side spray issue from the adjusted prop angle. It has very little affect on how well the ballast is utilized. If anything it also causes more fumes from the exhaust to rise up right at the swim platform since it blocks water from reaching the exhaust tip and diffusing the exhaust. (but this is another matter)

 

IMO you really just have to get out there and surf one. Whenever I demo boats, I always bring my trusty 550 pound sack and a pump so I can 'simulate' an upgraded setup. I would do this or bring a crap ton of people lol.

 

Also you have to keep in mind, everyone's definition of surfable is different. If you're a big dude riding an aggressive small board on a small wave, you're not going to have a good time. If you're a smaller person with an oversized board you're probably going to do just fine.

 

Many thanks again. After reading the earlier replies I went ahead and started making some calls. I called race city Marine and the guy there told me he has surfed it stock with no problems at all. He did add that more weight makes it better but he has surfed it many times stock with 3 guys on the boat and it was fine. Again though, they are a dealer. I'm not calling him a liar. He was super nice and understood my viewpoint.

 

So, I took it a step further. I called supreme and they had the local supreme rep call me back. I have to say, response time was sick. He called me within 15 minutes. Another real nice guy and seemed really honest. He said the spine plate for the 2017s fixed the out of the box issues with stock ballasts. He also added that the wave can get better with more weight. He said it was surfable right out of the box for sure but the upgraded weight would definitely increase it, however, it wasn't needed.

 

I'd really love to find someone(so far I haven't) who has an S238 that is surfing and having a blast without any mods in weight or 10 people in the boat. I meet with my local dealer tomorrow and am excited but we really need to talk a bout the "what if" the boat simply has no push. Maybe they agree to cover the ballast upgrade which looked like $1000 when I went to wake shaper and checked out the S238 options...

 

Anyone else with info, I'd love to hear from you before I spend this money on a SURF boat that is beautiful, but can't be surfed. I can get a TON of nice boats for this price that CAN'T be used to SURF.

 

Thanks again!

Mike

[MFaso 56]

Gotcha. Makes sense. I'm about 200lb. Grew up surfing and snowboarding. Been boating for years and even wake boarding and knee boarding a ton of times. I would like a large sweet spot. Not a 1 foot range. That's going to bore me and I wouldn't personally call that worth 80k...I already have a 2013 boat that is awesome for my family. This boat is replacing it and the upgrade is to surf! If the dealer would have just told me all this from the beginning I wouldn't be so shocked. I'm ok adding as long as it's not taking up room on the boat. (seats or floor)

 

Since he is very confident, it's bothering me more. I've mentioned it in 2 conversations now. I will update you guys tomorrow with how it went.

 

Many thanks!

Mike

[Cwazy1 89]

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. I was also extremely disappointed when first seeing a stock ballast. If you want best stock ballast you'd have to go with a ramfill boat, but then literally ALL your space is taken up by hard tanks- vs soft sacks which can deflate when not using.

 

The upgraded sacks/bags are not visible. The 750 to replace the 500 in the lockers just utilize every square inch of the locker vs the 500 leaving maybe 4" of space on top of the bag.

 

The connecting 250 which goes under the bench is the same length as the entire starboard under bench storage. On the port side it leaves a few feet empty for your own storage closest to the bow. (since the port side bench runs all the way to the passenger seat)

 

The lead (if you decide this is necessary for your use), will go into a 'crack' under the rear locker bags. there is a 3" crack between where the hard tank ends and where the engine divider is on each side. easily fits 3 bags of lead.

 

What I would do is to not bother trying to plumb in your own double sack solution and just go to buy a s238 upgrade setup from NWBS (northwest boat sports). Its made by fly high. It'll probably cost the same as if you were to buy the bags and plumbing yourself. But it will be much simpler as it handles connecting the 250 to the 750 using 3x 1" tubes between the two bags. This way the fill line still fills into the bigger bags and flows into the smaller bag and same with the drain line. No splicing and adding y's, t's, valves. There has been reviews that the similar wakemakers setup has weak fittings and is more likely to split/leak.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Cwazy1

[luluzer 50]

The 'stinger' plate which is new for '17 is to fix the goofy side spray issue from the adjusted prop angle. It has very little affect on how well the ballast is utilized. If anything it also causes more fumes from the exhaust to rise up right at the swim platform since it blocks water from reaching the exhaust tip and diffusing the exhaust. (but this is another matter)

 

What's up with this?

[bprobertson 8]

I can't help on the 238 as i have never been on one but two thoughts.

I can't help but think that any deep V hull that has 1100 pounds in the rear locker plus 580 or so under the seats should surf pretty dang well. For sure you will go wireless and be able to come close to landing 360's. I assume the 238 has quickfill plus some type of plug and play that gets close to this.

Just another thought, if you are going to spend 80K, you could just get a one year old fs44 or fs33 for right around that price plus have ramfill and plug and play and that for sure surfs unbelievable out of the box. Even a one or two year old sv244 would be under 80K...

Like i said, i just can't believe that a 238 doesn't surf comparable to an older sv240 which is what i had for years and all i had was bags in lockers and under seats and it was plenty of wave...

 

Good luck

[MFaso 56]

Just an update... Met with the dealer today. He is very confident that it will surf great stick. He surfs these boats stock all the time. He said of course you can add and it would make a larger wave, similar to anything... When you are 17 and you drive, your radio works fine but you probably add more to it. makes sense... He is saying he will not leave me solo until I'm riding without the rope and comfortable. He has spent many days with some customers showing them how to set things up and others get it in a few hours but he said he is pretty much guaranteeing it. He even went as far as saying if it's not surfable out of the box he would buy the boat back. I'm going to go with it. I'm at this lake all the time and if he is this confident and is willing to ride with me, surf the wave and then hang until I am surfing it, then that's a super nice guy who is really standing behind what he is selling.

 

I asked him a pooh ton of questions. I really pressed hard. He knows I would be really upset if he is wrong or lying and it would cause a ton of issues. He wouldn't put the marina name on the line if he wasn't confident.

 

Lastly, I asked for a customer who I know Bought from him. He reached out and I spoke to the guy. He confirmed he never added ballast or any weight and he was surfing fine. I've seen him surf actually... He was shown how to set it all up by the same guy I'm buying from and he is set. That helped me a bit as well.

 

Soooo, I guess I'm going to work on the cost a bit and seal the deal. I will be back here letting you all know how that goes. I truely appreciate the replies and I hope I can help you all out in the future.

 

Any other info is welcomed.

 

Thanks all!

 

Mike

[Cwazy1 89]

Have fun out there! be sure to post some pics in the spring once you really get going.

 

IMO you picked the right boat for the price. If you can save the money and surf it out of the box with a rest assured guarantee than I call that a win. Worst case you shell out another 500-700$ and upgrade the ballast for a forum-approved wave

[MFaso 56]

Thanks Cwazy. That was what I was thinking. If that is really the case, I bet the dealer picks up that cost for me or at least gets supreme involved until the problem is solved. I feel good about it and I love the boat! The price point of these things is great. Yea, I'm missing some presets and some other gimics but I don't think those are worth spending 120k instead of 80k.

 

I was upset about the presets at first. I mean, how much of a cost would it be to develop some additional software and have it on the boat? It's probably new for 2018 or 2019. they need to hold back so boat sales keep going. Can't give us everything all at once. That's business... But really, the preset is going to change if more people are n the boat and also based on conditions that day. How often is the same preset perfect every time you are out? With that said, I won't miss it. A few touches on the boat screen like my cell phone screen isn't going to be a deal breaker. I'd rather be on a boat than a cell phone any day!

 

I WILL report back.

 

Mike

[daz28iroc 73]

We have one preset on our old perfect pass. When it turns on its at 11.2

 

But it all changes based on direction of travel versus any chop/waves. People, ballast, which side..

 

As a driver once u know what ur after for a wave its mostly just making sure u got the right songs on. I have an avalanche.. so not new but in general these boats are pretty easy to make a good wave. And the newer boats just keep getting better and bigger waves.

 

But none of us are satisfied, as there is always calmer water and bigger better surf to b had

[gwiz 23]

What options are you looking at getting? You keep saying 80k... Your boat should cost a lot closer to 70 unless your ordering the H6.

[Cwazy1 89]

I've never even seen a well optioned '17 226 going for close to 70, let alone a '17 238.

[Avalentines238 16]

I have a 2016 s238 I have not added any aftermarket lead or bags to our boat and I can consistently ride without the rope. Now I also spent 100+ hours getting to that point of tuning the wave. The last time I went out behind our boat I had 3 total people and the wave was surfable and able to do 360's. Now that being said, with more weight in the boat the wave really comes ALIVE. You can absolutely tell the difference. But out of the box the wave is surfable and good enough push to surf without the rope and not have to pump the whole time. I've been out with just me and one other person (once dialed in) and been able to surf no problem. If I had it all to do over I still would have bought the s238. Just dont get discouraged if it takes a little while to get it dialed in tho. It is frustrating and time consuming. Lots of trial and error. But totally worth it when you make it work. I would love to help as much as I can on the dialing in part.